I don't know if anyone else has mentioned or noticed this... Most of the posts in the animated threads are super positive reactions to the great work that is being done on the series. Not a whole lot of argument and almost everyone loves the new treatments the characters are getting, along with the nods to the past. Most of the posts in the Movie threads are long argumentative debates on the various problems created by Bays attempt to "appeal to a mass audience". To the movie team, hope you guys can make up the difference in the sequel, and I wish you luck. To the "animated" production team, thanks for an awesome series. This has been the best incarnation of TF yet.
Even waaay back when the movie discussion went on, I comforted myself that even though Bay re-imagined our favourite series in a horrendous way, I can hope that a team led by a (once) TF cartoon writer and having the team of Teen Titans or Legion of Superheroes on board will make a new cartoon that will be awesome. Guess what? I was right... Similarry, I'll be more interested about news from the 3. season of animated in 2009 then the stupid Bayformers 2. movie...
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I think it might be interesting to look at the similarities actually... Anyway, the movie certainly has gotten a variety of reactions, but then again there been debates over Animated as well.
My original thought was that the overal fan reaction to animated was much greater than most of us expected. When the early designs were first posted just like the movie there was a lot of uproar over how animated would be too kiddy, how OP looked like a gorrilla, and a lot of the same bad sentiment that we saw with the movie, and "re-inventing" the universe one more time. It's a little funny that we've somehow got past the optimus lips which was a big item with the movie when it leaked. Just like the movie we got new charaters, and redesigns of old ones, but not as many people seemed to mind the changes in animated. Maybe I just havn't been in the animated threads long enough to see the rage over issues like optimus prime having flames and lips, or Animated prowl being a motorcycle instead of a polce car. At this point seems like a lot opinions have lightened and wile some debate goes on, for themost part Animated delivered something that most of us fans can agree is a really good show. Now in Defense of the movie, they didn't have the 10+ hours of story that have gone into animated. Thats what I meant when I said I hope they can make up the difference in TF2.
To me most movie threads seem more like MOST people arguing with one or two people who are overly vocal and overly negative.
To be very simplistic and argumentative about it, I could say that's because Animated is good while Bayformers was very very bad. To be fair, the discussions were exactly the same until people actually saw the show/movie. It was "These designs are stupid!" vs. "Give it a chance!" on both counts. The only other observation about the discussions I can make is that the Bayformers threads always seemed to have the tone of a pseudo-political arguement in which the real isssue is sidestepped to debate a false premise and any criticizm is disimissed. Instead of actually talking about the movie, anyone who had anything negative to say about it was called a "GeeWunner" and told to they were unable to accept change. Personally, Bay's departure from G1 is a non-issue. My dislike of the movie wasn't that it was not G1. I just thought it wasn't a very good movie. In fact, I thought it was quite a bad movie. But Prime's mouth had nothing to do with it.
Agree with everything Pauly T says, though I actually supported and welcomed the leaked designs and changes made. (Then was disappointed by the movie.) Two additional points: Uno The community - the message boards here, Seibertron, the official movie one, The Lost Covenant - in varying degrees took a huge influx of new members, people enthused by news of the movie and rekindling their love of the franchise. It's conceivable that this new community could go either way - they're not 'hardcore' fans, so may not have as much personally staked in the look of the film, or; they only know G1, Beast Wars, maybe Armada, but probably not all incarnations of TFs, and are riled that "their" version of Prime, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream is not in the film. Beyond that, they may be new to TF boards, or internet boards in general, and not nuanced in making their point graciously or with full appreciation of some facet of online TF discussion. Add that to the obligatory anonimity of such enterprise and - bingo! - we have a bun fight. Duo After all of the above, for 18 months, of 'noobs' making 'noob' comments, GeeWunners being disappointed, a lot of people who took the whole thing far too gravely and applied extreme literal examination, and the fact that people who make reasonable comments or accept reasoned counter-argument may be drowned out on any message board, perhaps the community were tired of it and once the majority got on board with TFA, the rest followed. Though the corollary is that those who still dislike TFA (and I appreciate why, if not agree) have politely moved on from trying to argue why they dislike it. They should be applauded for not repeating the behaviour (of others) on the movie boards. (If it's not a flame -) I always enjoyed what a certain TFA-sceptic had to say, and found they helped me examine my enjoyment of TFA in a way that has enhanced it. Because they were polite, reasonable, and a veteran of the antagony of the movie boards. People jumping on his back for not liking TFA was both unpleasant and unnecessary. However, it's great that there is so much fun and love again on the boards. Add TFA to the new classics coming out, and, for me, the fun of the Marvel-formers, and this year is going to be great. Sorry for the long post.
And anyone who had anything positive to say about it was called a sheep, and told that they weren't a troo fan.
In the end, it all depends on the poster and how he behaves. There are terribly obnoxious ranters, and really annoying ravers. It's those who don't start flamewars who are okay.
A good point that I neglected to mention. (Probably because I never personally experienced that as I never had anything good to say about that movie. ) Still, you're right. The point was it seemed like nobody was allowed to discuss the movie on its own merits. As for Animated, it doesn't seem like there's many Animated haters who follow the show whereas just about everybody, for better or worse, saw the live-action movie. Maybe cartoon-wise, fans know that if they don't like a TF series, they can just wait for the next one. And thanks to IronicHide for the perfect, albeit deceptively edited, sig quote...
Well, I think that was always the biggest problem with the movie discussion no matter which side you were on... or if you were like myself and in the middle (liked some things about it and hated others). Even when intelligent discussion (done in a mature and reasonable way) would start about the movie... a very very very vocal minority on both sides would chime in and you have two opposing sides of the argument. One overly positive and the other overly negative... with neither side being very intelligent about it all. But, again, these were a small increasingly vocal minority. I think if you go back and read a lot of the posts you'll find that there were a lot of people whom either enjoyed/disliked the movie, but who's intelligible comments were drowned out by about ten different posters.
I think the difference in the amount of "argumentative debates" between the movie and Animated is simple. More people cared about the movie then they do about the new cartoon. The movie was a multi-million dollar summer Blockbuster that was aimed at all people between the ages of 11-50+. Animated is aimed at kids 5-11 and TF fans. One of these two had a LOT more exposure to the general public then the other. As such, more people know of, and care about the quality of the film over the quality of the cartoon. Add to that the fact that Animated, being an animated TV series, is better able to tell a story and do so from the perspective of the giant robots. It can take the time to flesh out characters(a major complaint from the movie was the 'formers got too little screen time) while omitting human characters (another complaint is that the humans got too much time), explain in detail events and results of certain actions (movie had so many plot holes due to limited time restraints) while allowing for a larger suspension of disbelief (it's easier to do something amazing on a cartoon then a live action film). And at the end of the day, in a few years we all know there will be a new cartoon with a new cast and new designs. But how long will we have to wait until an entirely new Live Action Movie universe comes to be? The bottom line is that the movie was far more widespread and well known to the average person then the cartoon is. As such the movie will draw far more complaints because it got the far bigger audience.
