You Don't Get To Determine What is and isn't Transformers

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Galvatross, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. Galvatross

    Galvatross Online Fandoms Suck! Veteran

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    This fandom has a wide variety of opinions about the movies. That's fine, and I get that.

    What I don't get is fans who say the movie(s) they don't like are not Transformers, when in actuality they ALL are EQUALLY Transformers movies.

    The 2007 movie has two warring factions of Transformers coming to Earth and fighting over the Allspark.

    Revenge of the Fallen has an evil Transformer come to Earth and try to destroy the Sun, and other Transformers try to stop them.

    Dark of the Moon has a ship full of Transformers that crashed on the Moon, and one of these Transformers' allies revive him, only for the newly revived Transformer to reveal he's been working with the evil Transformers.

    Age of Extinction has the good Transformers in hiding from a bounty hunter Transformer who is working with bad humans, and the remains of the good Transformers are being melted down by humans to make their own Transformers, and these humans are being manipulated by the head of a decapitated Transformer with evil intentions.

    In The Last Knight there are these ancient Knight Transformers, and they're enemies with this deceptive Transformer who has various Transformer minions and wants to restore Cybertron by draining Earth's energy, and the Earth happens to be a giant Transformer.

    The upcoming Bumblebee movie has a friendly, yellow Transformer who talks through the radio, and there are a couple other bad Transformers.

    You can like or dislike any of the movies as you choose, but every single one of the movies are equally Transformers movies. They all feature transforming, sentient, sapient, alien robots form Cybertron. They all feature Autobots and Decepticons and sometimes other Transformers, like Lockdown, Allspark Mutations, and Infernocus. All of them so far are inspired by stories and concepts from G1 with some other iterations mixed in.

    It's fine to have preferences. It's not fine to determine what is and isn't "true" Transformers, when all of it is. There's plenty of room in the brand for everyone to enjoy what they enjoy and allow others to enjoy what they like. One fan's "ruined forever" is another fan's G1.
     
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  2. edgs2099

    edgs2099 Optimistically realistic. TFW2005 Supporter

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    Cool?
     
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  3. NemesisPrime12

    NemesisPrime12 Well-Known Member

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    It's just different iteration. Each people has their own transformers version. Just like Schumacher's Batman and Nolan's Batman. They are all batman, just different version
     
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  4. Venixion

    Venixion Member of the notorious Pew-Pew Posse

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    Oh I agree that they are transformers. I'm not arrogant enough to determine that. But I am arrogant enough to determine that most of them, both toy and big screen, barely look like transformers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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  5. Paok

    Paok Well-Known Member

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    Oh, you know people don't mean it literally when they say it. But, allow me to play devil's advocate:

    There's a particular store that has the best tomatoes and you've been a fan of them for years, right? One day, you go there and it doesn't have any tomato anywhere. You ask for tomatoes, they give you pickles and say "those are tomatoes now". What?!?! No they aren't.

    First of all, these things have no relation to one another, not even close, besides some similarities like being food and often being put in burgers and salads, secondly, you were a fan of the tomatoes, not the pickles.

    Ok though, it's not your store, so you don't get to say what they should sell and how. But if they sell you pickles for tomatoes, and expect you to keep supporting the store, you can tell them they're bloody mad and stop going to there until they get their shit together. If other people keep telling you how great those not-tomatoes are, you can keep telling them pickles are not tomatoes and they'll never be.

    "One person's pickles are another person's tomatoes. Some kids weren't around when tomatoes were sold, so we told them pickles are tomatoes and they like them just fine. You should open your mind and maybe you'll like them too." - Open your mind to accept pickles as tomatoes?

    You can still pass by the store, and check if they brought any actual tomatoes and maybe ask if they want to do so. Because those were some fine tomatoes that they used to sell and no one else does.

    Should you feel bad for missing those tomatoes? Should you feel bad for asking the store to bring them back? Should you not tell the kids that those are not in fact tomatoes just because the store says so?
     
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  6. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    This
     
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  7. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Not really.

    Tomatoes are just that - tomatoes. They either are of this plant species or aren't.

    But TFs are a manufactured franchise. An artificial thought construct. A marketing brand.

    By this point it had so many iterations that it's not possible to firmly claim what is or isn't TFs.

    Now, it's very easy to claim what is or isn't G1. The style, the aesthetics of it are clear. Bayformers aren't G1.

    But the only people who can claim what is or isn't a legit TF incarnation without making themselves look like entitled fools are the IP owners. Period.


    Now the thing is, Bayformers never were marketed as G1. It did not use G1 styled logo, nor packaging. It did redesign even the faction symbols. Actually, one of their marketing catchphrases was "those aren't your father Transformers" so it was made very clear from the beginning.

    So I don't feel sorry for people who did expect tomatoes whilst being offered pickles marketed as pickles.

    Even if said pickles were pretty dumb and adolescent at times.


    Edit:
    For an example, I can't stand Beast Wars uglyness and derpy alt modes. Those are still Transformers, though. My personal dislike or not isn't changing a thing here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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  8. NemesisPrime12

    NemesisPrime12 Well-Known Member

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    This.
     
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  9. spiritprime

    spiritprime Dudes, I'm a girl!

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    And the point of this topic is...?
     
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  10. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

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    I disagree
     
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  11. PlanckEpoch

    PlanckEpoch Just a regular old plumbus

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    Been following the entire discussion on the Starscream thread. I have no stake there but...come on.

    "It's cool to have a different opinion except for one that offends me!"

    You don't have to like an opinion. God knows there are many I detest. But those people have every right to them. Personally I dislike the vast majority of iterations of Transformers. I don't recognize or respect them. The only ones I respect are G1 and 2, Animated, and the Bay movies in a "so bad but I can't take my eyes off" way. Plus I actually liked AoE and TLK. Everything else can frankly fuck off and rot in hell.

    You may not like my stance but my opinion is just as valid as any other. You mentioned in the other thread that we as fans don't have to be in lockstep with each other on every idea. But saying that also means that you can't determine for others what is a right or wrong way to see Transformers. If you believe we don't have to be a hive mind then you have to accept the fact that Transformers means so so many things to people and they can individually determine for themselves what is and isn't Transformers. The nature of a discussion board will naturally allow these viewpoints to come to the fore and you have no real right to say they aren't allowed.

    As a final thought...why is it absolutely important that say...I recognize BW as Transformers? Frankly...I don't. Its the one part of the franchise I actively despise. Does this opinion actively change things or does it just offend you in some way. If I have an active hand in making the franchise less fun for fans, then perhaps I'll reconsider my ways. But if it is merely offensive to you, then it is a problem you have to sort out. You advocate for freedom of ideas. That effectively means that you will allow ideas that make you upset and irritated or whatever. That's just the nature of the beast.
     
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  12. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    They are Transformers because Hasbro said so.
     
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  13. Venixion

    Venixion Member of the notorious Pew-Pew Posse

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    Absolutely this. Whether we like a particular iteration or not, Hasbro has the final say, be they originals, Beast Wars, or Ballerina-bots in barbed wire and chickenwire tutus.
     
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  14. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    I wish Beast Machines wasn’t Transformers... but it is.
     
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  15. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    You see...

    Speaking out loud a belief that Bayformers or Beast Wars are a bad incarnation of Transformers is not the same as refusing to acknowledge them as an incarnation of the franchise.

    Frankly, the franchise always had some of its versions being so-so and disliked and will have some more in the future.
     
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  16. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    Dude, you actually felt the need to make a thread to explain the obvious?

    I mean, we ALL are aware that Hasbro slapping Transformers branding on whatever they fart out means that, yes, it is Transformers regardless of our opinions about it. But that doesn't give you the right to suddenly be all preachy about how we have to accept it with open arms because of what Hasbro dictates and you frankly eat it up just because it has Transformers branding on it. We have the right to be a bit more picky on what we want.

    Take a look at the new Thundercats cartoon and how the entire internet absolutely fucking hates it. The one thing everybody is in agreement about? That it is technically Thundercats because it has the same characters and the brand name...and that's the only thing making it Thundercats. It otherwise is a shameless sell-out meant to ape other current cartoons like Steven Universe and other 'CalArts' type animation projects but the content and tone shown, along with the flippant dismissive additude of people associated with it toward the fanbase, is utterly abhorrent and ignorant of why Thundercats is still even relevant to this day.

    That's largely what has happened with the Transformers films. From the beginning there were people associated with them that outright disregarded any attempt to keep the appeal of Transformers - Lorenzo didn't even want Peter Cullen as Optimus Prime because he intentionally wanted nothing to do with the classic cartoon, instead wanting Liam Nielson to do the voice work purely because he's a more famous actor. Michael Bay is on record as stating how much he hated the idea of fembots AND Dinobots, and when the guy in charge of handling the movie adaption of said franchise is mouthing off about how much he thinks aspects of it are stupid, you have to ask why the hell he's involved in the first place.

    Normally, this isn't actually a problem because the franchise always rebooted after a few years, so if there was something you din't like, you could just wait for the successor series to come along and let the dice roll to see if you liked the next - if not, cycle repeats. We don't have that anymore because the movies have been dictating the direction of the franchise for ten solid years. So it comes off as more than a little insensitive to preach about how people have to be open and accepting to movie bullshit at this point, because somehow you expect people to do something other than voice their extreme displeasure at how the franchise itself has been negatively altered because of the movies and the power of greed has allowed the influence of idiots like Lorenzo di Bonaventura to shape it away from the reasons Transformers had such staying power to begin with.

    It's funny you titled the thread "you don't get to determine what is and what isn't Transformers" and then your entire OP is literally telling people why the films are Transformers films because of what you determine to be the most important reasons...except you don't cite reasons, you just summurize the plots of each film. That doesn't cut it. For many, the only bad guys that should be in a film are the Decepticons, full stop - they don't want humans being the main bad guys, they don't want third party "Decepticons in all but name" like Lockdown, they don't want human history to be force-fed through a mixer to blindly incorperate Transformers more because they're just alien robots and nothing whatsoever to do with the fact they transform. Maybe people want the robots to look like they actually transform and not just mimicry of humans to the point of removing kibble from robot mode for that reason alone. Maybe people want less human bullshit altogether because humans aren't why Transformers has survived for 30+ years.

    Or maybe people just want a decently written film adaption that doesn't involve humans being OP as fuck, the transformers looking like total stooges, and maybe instead of spending so much wasted time on trying to give a fucking human history lesson with robots hamfisted in weird places where transforming has no benefit whatsoever, and maybe instead at the very least give a history lesson on the actual namesake robots of the film about why they're so special as a race of robots who can turn into vehicles and stuff and why they're fighting a war in the first place.
     
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  17. Sablebot

    Sablebot Autobot Media Scientist

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    LOVE your analogy! It's spot on. I could also take your food analogy further, and deeper, if you like, using a current real phenomenon involving food. . .

    Awww, what the hell, I'll go ahead anyway ;) :D :D :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :
    *(Wish I could insert that sound of Vincent Price laughing at the end of "Thriller", LOL!!!)

    In my estimation, this is the equation:

    Bayverse=GMO foods;
    G1, G2, Beast Wars, Armada, TFC, TFP, FOC, WFC, the original Japanese iterations (which spawned the idea of transforming robots in the first place, long before Hasbro, Sunbow and Marvel bought the rights, creating the whole Cybertronian backstory), Rescue Bots, Animated, Alternators, and the like=Organic Foods.

    That's my story and I stand by it like a redwood tree.:wink: :thumb 
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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  18. drbeakman

    drbeakman Well-Known Member

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    This is why I cant deal with this guy anymore, yet somehow he gets carte blanche on this board
     
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  19. Venixion

    Venixion Member of the notorious Pew-Pew Posse

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    Indeed. That's every franchise that has had several incarnations.
     
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  20. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    I know, right? How can be people with different tastes in the franchise not outright banned from the boards. Oh the travesty... Unimaginable!
     
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