yeah!!! Movie Preview toys! OP and SS!

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by S250, Oct 21, 2006.

  1. Quintesson #1

    Quintesson #1 Eater of Fuzzy Stuff

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    Have fun reading another big post.

    Didn't mean to come over hysterical at all, sarcastic yes, overly sarcastic, yes. Venomous... Well sarcastic can become rather venomous. Tbh I expected flames not for the content of the post but since critting the movie always results in flames or 'stop posting you Geewunner' posts. Wreckie, you're right as far as the flaming is concerned - however, there were some other ways to respond too. I'm just getting pretty tired of certain people's manner of defending certain decisions over the past year. I didn't expect any difference before posting so I guess I started it myself. Mostly 'upset' with bullox arguments that prefer to ignore or weakly excuse a change than debate it because they think they won't get anything better anyway (that's true, like I said months ago nothing will change radically from script or designs, which they didn't buy but appears true, so no, you'll not get anything better and no, you'll not get humanoid faces) and they'll swallow anything the movie throws at them at the moment.


    I've thought about it objectively and came to a very negative conclusion, meaning I obtained an opinion and with that making it subjective. Objectively (meaning not looking at it from a fanboy perspective but engineering realistic pov which the movie claimed they were doing): it's utter crap (note, so is G1 and most other TF shows). On top of that, from a fanboy perspective it's also utter crap at least to me (note, most series aren't, from a fanboy pov, because it doesn't matter anyway because you suspend your believe, however, having had x numbers of series in the past, there are some fanboy things they could and should have done for the movie regardless of 'realism', which they didn't).

    Even worse, from the perspective of all he people I've shown it to it's also utter crap. Showed these and other mech designs individually - without commenting who it was before hand and what my opinion of it was - to a number non-TF fans, surprisingly (?) who couldn't stomach any of the designs at all. Why? Prime not a semi but a 'lazy-American-******' (he's british and opinionated towards US folks from playing with them in online games ;P he couldn't remember any names apart from Optimus, Megatron, Starscream and Bumblebee btw) when he saw the altmode, the botmode was "EEEWWWWW" (direct quote), Megatron was after a period of silence [...] something twisted, a metal like 'thing', but definitely not a TF, Bumblebee was a "WTF is that", Starscream he had problems with the bug head, where the iconic shoulder wings were, why he had tanklike guns for hands, why he looked wider than the 'bloke that folds into a friggin truck', that the flimsy legs prolly would have trouble keeping that weight up and that it just didn't say 'Starscream'; showed him the protoforms and he was wondering what the hell and why the hell they did that that way - BEFORE I said anything. There's only been ONE guy that liked Megatron's design - UNTIL he learned it was Megatron. And he doesn't even care for Transformers as it's a 'kiddie show' and only for that wouldn't go see it (Aussie Macross and Gundam fan, who does mecha concept designs).


    Now, this is the type of guys Bay is trying to reach. Apparently, about 50 other people in my personal environment and online, Netherlands, UK, Australia, the US, Canada and Norway, etc, who aren't by definition Transfans, all thought "WTF" after seeing the designs. Next to that, most online fans I've encountered (in chat) feel the same way. On forums it appears the pro guys are in the majority, but a lot of folks that dislike the movie seem to try to ignore it as much as possible to not get all the 'oh ffs' and 'wtf' and 'oh man' continuously.

    Seeing as their supposed movie going opinion is the primary reason for change, I don't get it and I'll keep saying that. If most people had liked it, I'd not be so sarcastic, since they'd be doing things right. Seeing however as most TF fans I know that also did these tests on non-fans generally got the same reactions, I really question why a lot of Transfans accept these extreme changes in style to 'appease to the general public as a blockbuster movie'. Yeah, same kinda stylation changes did great for Catwoman too. >___> If they're the audience, why are they negative? I don't care if stuff was concept art or not (it's not), which was one of the main defenses you'd get but which is clearly refuted now. A lot of you will still say "you haven't seen the movie yet so they might still change things" or that you shouldn't judge yet. Seeing however that all the leaks point to the same things over and over you CAN make assumptions. Problem is both concepts and non-CGI stuff are putting a lot of people that aren't even real fans off or make them go "WTF", at most they're neutral about it, but none have gone "WOoooooOOOoo" on me. Like the guy above said: He didn't want fackin' 4li3n4t0rm0rph3rs, he wanted giant robot Transformers.

    But go on, tell me I 'can't prove that I did that and got that result and I faked it'. Again. Entertain (annoy) me. Truth is most people - plenty - in between 17 and 34 I spoke trying to offer an objective format while questioning them - I presume this is roughly the target audience - all think the concepts they were shown sucked. You make a forum thread on a gaming forum with just the images and TF names, they say it (WTF!) sucks. It's amazing how only conditioned movie forum thread visiting fans have come over the new aesthetics through prolonged exposure/propaganda (?) and the knowledge of 'this is it, I better like it cause I won't get anything else, but if I hope enough maybe in the next two movies'. (Yeah right...).


    Like I've always said... You'll mostly attract an audience who liked it when they were younger, and who expect a certain stylation, but don't care for having to suspend their disbelieve. The realism argument should both be used either in favour or against, but atm it's only used in favour of changes, even if they make not much sense and go in a direct opposite direction. I don't think any of these decisions is helping drawing those in AND keeping them in for future movies. Even if the first is a mediocre success simply because of the established brand name, the latter movies wouldn't be that well visited. I care enough to tell you what I think of the movie and how you'll lot will prolly be desillusioned. :/ Will I see it? Prolly not anymore no. Maybe in 6 years. I don't understand some people that think you should just be happy you get 'something' which will be a 'blockbuster actionflick but not persé TFs because it's Hollywood that's making it'. I don't really see the point of making a movie about something while altering 90% of it from subtle things like a spaceship to drastic things like of major style and appearance changes of iconic characters - who it's all about anyway. How can you actually still claim it's about them? :/



    I'm not sure if you've noticed but I've always mentioned it's my personal opinion. :/ The 'unmitigated hatred' stems from being disappointed time after time with every bit of news and the awkward decisions being made, which to me mean the Transformers as a whole might be on the verge of losing all general public interest after the movie, NOT because of just me, but what I've observed from others. From flames to no faceplate on Optimus to Megs to Starscream to at least Bumblebee's non-cgi face... I've almost not seen anything that people just went "WOW" about. Nearly everything was received with "WTF" then weeks of conditioning on forums before people 'liked it enough to make it acceptable'. Thing is, the general audience will have half an hour to learn to appreciate the new styling, as they'll sit there for say only 2 hours. You honestly think they'll appreciate all those changes from what even the few stuff they remember in that time period? :/ Call me sceptical, but no, I don't think so. That said, too late now to change anything. All you can do now is rant.


    The thing is the frustration with that builts up and up and up and comes out in threads like this. After which a few merry bandwagonhoppers come down on you because it's all great and makes 'perfect sense' and thus tell you to shut up (with or without calling something stupid or being sarcastic or being venomous). Excuse me for not caring about that anymore. (Darkravager, you made a typical post like that there, hence the generalisation, sorry for that then. Kinda worked up yesterday (at 3 AM I should stop posting I guess), but after MegaMoonMan made another typical "stupid-in-the-past-living-non-change-accepting-geegeewunner" post without again understanding the points he's argueing, while I just said a post earlier that's not my perspective at all... etc. Frustration took over, again.).
     
  2. blueandwhite

    blueandwhite Well-Known Member

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    In my experience, being even moderately negative (or positive for that matter) can still lead to alot of flaming by extremists who simply can't accept differing opinions. I find that people who unconditionally love something can be just as bad as those who unconditionally hate it.

    Ironically, I find that most venomous posts seem to start as counters to the opinions of more moderate ones. Of course, this could all be avoided if people simply ignored those posts, rather than throwing gasoline on the fire.
     
  3. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    Quintesson #1, why don't you show your 50 friends the Galaxy Force Megatron toy, or the Energon Optimus Prime toy? I'm guessing your 17 to 34 age demographic would respond with an equal or greater "WTF?".

    On a side note, as a designer I would be vehemently furious with someone showing around my year old draft work out of context, claiming it to be my final and asking for opinions.
     
  4. Automorpher

    Automorpher Autobot Slut!

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    Too lazy to get past 50+ pages of comments so please bear with me if someone had popped these questions before:

    1) What exactly do they transform into??? The chinese website's saying that those are vehicle modes but they do seem a little odd & off track as compared to conventional TFs.

    2) If these are meant to transform into vehicles, WHY do the robot modes seemed more "Beast Wars" with claws?? :confused: 
     
  5. Subotnik

    Subotnik Please Stand By.

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    A sense of regret when you get home and open them, I imagine.
     
  6. MagnusPrimal

    MagnusPrimal Well-Known Member

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    :lolol  :lol 
     
  7. Deadend

    Deadend Spark of Creation

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    Wow, I'm digging these and the from the sounds of the tidbits, I'm amped for the movie. So long as they aren't morphing, liquid forming, or exploding transformations I'll be happy, malforming and folding is whatever. And arm canon's now, oh man they are giving us so many G1 nuances and other series nods while still pushing forward for the "What if this happened in the real world" aspect. And from the sounds of it, we have the potential here to build bigger and bigger! Especially once a movie canon is established! I wonder if the movie might even have a joke about the toon being one mans warning but no one believed him xD. Nah, I don't think they'd go that corny at all. But who knows. I just hope the effects can pull off the realism they claim. And they make a HD copy. I will buy this on HD if the effects are good enough to warrant it.

    [​IMG]My new background while I wait :) . Found the Red unofficial movie promo alteration over on TFmovie .Info site.
     
  8. Caterwaul

    Caterwaul Busou Shinki Loremaster

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    Reentry modes. Basically 'vehicle' modes designed solely to get them through the atmosphere safely and to the surface of the planet where they can then find a local vehicle to disguise themselves as.

    As for why the robot modes look like that...because the designers liked that look and it's probably similar to what the movie designs will end up looking like.

    Comeing into things late, I'm ambivalent to these things. I like the robot modes and you can see LOTS of G1 touches to them (The detractor's claims to the contrary). Optimus has his chest 'windows' and twin smoke stacks. He has Prime's distinctive head. You can tell almost instantly that it's Optimus. Starscream is a bit different, but he has many nods. What looks like a 'nose' forming the center of his chest, ports on the side, twin structures on the back that match up to the 'air intakes' on his classic form.

    The 'Vehicle' modes...well, they're biomechanical looking meteors. It's hard to get excited over what's essentially a metal rock. That said, if the final toys have robot modes similar to these, I will be very happy.
     
  9. butz

    butz slippery when wet

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    I wonder if they'll stick with that font/design for the TF logo from now on?
     
  10. Shaun_C

    Shaun_C The REAL One True fan Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    Because a lot of them 1)Genuinely like them or 2)Has gotten used to the differing look. And honestly the reaction this time around isn't much different then the BW/BM reaction of the late 90's-early 2000's. The fanbase reacted just as venomously, I'm surprised I haven't been hearing about death threats being sent to the writters, Murphy or Bay.

    And for myself, I never had a problem with the BW/BM look so I don't get worked up over these. As weird as they admittedly look, if I got used to Beast Machines I can get used to these

    And I bet some people said the EXACT same thing about Beast Wars and Beast Machines.

    Uh Optimus does have a face plate, the blue head posted on this board before shows he has a face plate

    And I've got to wonder if these friends are non-fans of yours. That means they haven't thought about TFs in years. And you say you were objectively, yet you clearly dislike them. So even on a subtle level these friends of yours might be reading into that and thinking "hey if this guy a hardcore fan dislikes them, they've got to suck"
     
  11. Foster

    Foster Haslab Victory Saber Backer #3 Veteran

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    Thanks for bringing up BM. I have a complete set of BM toys. I look at them now and have no idea what I was thinking when I bought these. The Maximals especially, but most of the Vehicons too, are really ugly in comparison to Cybertron or Classics figures, Alternators or even StarsGREEN. I regret buying those and the BW Transmetal 2 toys. I don't care for the aesthetic. This time, I'm much more picky. That and I'm running out of space with the size of my collection! :lol 
     
  12. Automorpher

    Automorpher Autobot Slut!

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    Oops! Then I probably wont BUY 'em cos' I simply cant really afford the price of REGRET nowadays. It's getting expensive! :D 
     
  13. Deadend

    Deadend Spark of Creation

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    If fans can deal with RID Megs, and Fans can deal with some of the other alterations done to Prime, why's this a big deal?

    I mean we got fatimus prime, gundamis prime, and that's not even touching BM (which btw my only complaint in BM was the animal transformations.) Why is neo anime live action Prime so much more horrendous?

    The movie from what I can tell has elements scattered all throughout the fandom, you have G1 nuances, RID nuances, Armada, possibly some Cybertron as well, with mild hints at BW and BM nuances. Heck the script itself feels like a conglomeration of several G1 Episodes, and that's pre-changes. (although I lean more on the Chip G1 eps than Spike ones, but hey it's still G1.)

    At least these bear some resemblance to who they claim to be, unlike the entire RiD Gigatron megatron debacle. Starscreams Head I let slide because he feels like a mix of armada thrust to G1 screamer. Megs I can bear with, as I don't think that really is his final form, I think we'll see a lot of running changes and not even to appease fans, just a natural evolution of the story. Look at the two Bumblebees. One's G1 and one screams GoldBug, while still having what it looks like as story centric causes for the new look and face. (I'm assuming the mouth removal and addition of the face plate has to do with the voice issue in the story.) Even when designs are said to be final, and this is who they will be, keep in mind one thing that's unspoken but true "FOR THIS FILM" this does not speak for the sequels at all.

    So a few heads are different, so it's a new direction, so what? How's this any different at all, to any new series taking liberties?

    So the hands and heads need work, meh those are simple mods for toys at least. So if you don't like it, at least you hav a kick ass body and legs to keep for kitbashing. I fail to see any real drawbacks to this line or film. I'm still saving final judgement upon seeing it though.

    With that said, besides screamer (who's growing on me day by day, that protoform one, and the story reasons behind stuff is helping.) and Jazz (story reasons still, but I'm sorry that pic still screams to me shockwave/laserwave. They need to tweak that head some.) I've liked the bots. Oh boohoo prime has a battle face plate. So did BW prime, and Cybertron/GF Prime. They still looked awesome and were decent characters and designs.

    I also must say I'm loving the conundrum this movie presents as well. What if megs is forced into a less hostile look by human interaction to finally try and develop human contacts to avoid autobot attention? There's many directions they could go, and the entire cybertronian speak gives a better way for them to talk behind a humans back in front of him than the toons speaking in english around the humans who can still hear and understand their plans, yet continue on blindly to the traitorious actions they *should* know is coming.
     
  14. dragon_lord

    dragon_lord great dragon god

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    so......they aren't pictures of the comet mode yet? u^^Uu.......I wonder what is taking pumaking a week to shots some pics of it o_O U....I hope he can get some free time soon xDDD