Ya know, it would be so simple to just directly continue the G1 story. Why not do it?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by SentinelPrime, Mar 11, 2010.

  1. SentinelPrime

    SentinelPrime I NEEDED THAT!

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    Wait! Before you point out how many times this has been beaten to death, just....hear me out. I promise to try make this somehow relevant or at least interesting.

    The first thought of course, was the typical "jeez, why can't the new show just be a direct continuation of G1?" whahwhahwhah :cry 

    I started formulating actual thoughts, then came to the quick conclusion that switching over to "the future" in the 86 movie & S3 screwed it all up anyway, and it'd be pointless...besides, all the work involved getting the writers up to speed, etc. I decided not to post.

    But then, I stopped and thought, now wait just a minute. This is 2010. S3 was supposedly in 2006 if I'm not mistaken. The whole point of S3 being in "the future" in completely null and void as it's now later than even that in real time.

    Then, I stopped and thought about the concept of getting the writers up to speed enough to actually continue to story, and realized what the hell? Actually it wouldn't be any big deal at all...all we keep doing is reusing the same names and archetypes for characters anyway, all that's really done in these new separate continuities is a restart of the story and some slight shuffling of ideas or characters, ultimately it's just the same story retold with a different flavor each time.

    You don't have to be a slave to the continuity either, just use it as a rough reference like GI Joe Resolute. Hasbro wants the popular names like Prime and Starscream, tons of fans want a direct G1 link, why NOT do it? It wouldn't be any massive undertaking. I don't see why it would require ANY more effort than launching any other TF show. It seems like the suggestion is that it would take more effort to continue it, but I don't see why it would.

    Just pick up the story, start it in 2010 or 11, and have it just be the autobots have refocused on protecting earth, and the decepticons are scavenging and attacking for resources. Prime was back, we keep getting reintro'd to Rodimus and Bumblebee anyway...I know there was Rebirth, but that could be left out as far as I'm concerned.

    It could feel like a fresh start, but simply lightly reference the past. If we are just recycling names and personalities anyway, I just don't see why it would matter to them. Wouldn't it be easier to manage a streamlined singular continuity anyway instead of taking the time to reinvent it each time?

    It's like the DC shows that were so good, there was a loose continuity all the way from the early 90s batman show all the way through to Justice League unlimited. They didn't feel the need to take all the members, shuffle up the names and costumes, and restart every 2 seasons. They treated the original characters with respect. G1 is like the Justice League, they are the original characters, they should be treated the same way. Prime is like Superman or Batman at this point, there's no need to jump around and change him up every two seasons.

    It's like Hasbro got it into their head that they just were not going to return to a G1 storyline, no matter what, and never really stopped and actually realized how easy it would actually be. If they need names like Ratchet or Ironhide, its way too easy to work around it.

    I guess it just came to me that "wait a minute, now just why the heck NOT directly pick up the story?" I always wrote it off as too complicated a process, but no, I don't think it would be. You could even slowly start to move the designs into something more modern by simply saying anyone just reformatted. Again, we use the same names and personalities anyway...WHY NOT? Look at the Tron Legacy trailer. Did they feel the need to scrap the past and re-make the movie? No, it's a direct continuation, and it looks way more awesome thusly.
     
  2. Tiller

    Tiller I don't know nothin'

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    Because that was Beast Wars. G1's time is long gone. Going by today's standards the G1 continuity is already a wreck. There would be no where to begin. Their stories have been told.

    And everyone would complain anyway. It's just like the recent Sonic 4 announcement. Everyone will get their hopes of for something will simply not compare to their nostalgia. Something wouldn't be the same, something so small and the fans will go crazy. Anyways eventually you'll run yourself into a rut if you don't change things up a little bit. It's why original transformers sales died out as people got tired of the same thing. You'll attract your previous fans but eventually you'll lose more and more without trying something that will appeal to a broader audience, and your fanbase dries up.
     
  3. SentinelPrime

    SentinelPrime I NEEDED THAT!

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    My impression was that Beast Wars began waaaay off in the future, so I don't think that's a consideration.

    And as far as stories re-told, heck, don't retell any! Move forward with new stories and bring in new characters, just don't disregard the past and completely reinvent the characters each time. Look what DW did with the brief G1 stories...lightly referenced the past, yet told new stories. Take that concept and begin it post S3. IT would feel new, but use the traditional characters. If they are going to be calling 'bots Prime and Bumblebee and Starscream anyway, again, I say why not. If anything redoing an origin everytime is retelling the story.

    And your Sonic 4 reference stands in direct conflict to New Super Mario Bros and it's stellar sales, or the Mega Man 9/10 games.

    Honestly, it's starting to seem like it takes MORE effort to redo a new continuity over and over. They know alot of people would like it, look at Resolute. Hasbro knows exactly why it went over so well with the fans.
     
  4. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

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    Dude, the G1 cartoon ended 23 years ago. A good bit of the cast is either dead or can't do the voices the same way any more. You want a continuation of fiction set in the G1 universe? Pick up the comics. Continuity is a mess, but it's all we got right now. Complete reboots are possible, but a continuation of the cartoon is absolutely out of the question and completely undesirable. Let it rest in piece.
     
  5. SentinelPrime

    SentinelPrime I NEEDED THAT!

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    Actually, I always was under the impression that the change of focus to the post-movie era and characters is what killed the majority of the franchise along with the death of Prime in the movie. I thought that was pretty much common concensus...
     
  6. SentinelPrime

    SentinelPrime I NEEDED THAT!

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    I disagree. Why is it out of the question or undesirable? GI Joe resolute and it's Hasbro-acknowledged success stands in direct argument of this mindset.

    Look at what DW did with TFs. The comic continuity was more convoluted than the cartoon's, and they did it flawlessly.

    Again, if we are just using the same names and ideas anyway, it makes sense to me. I don't buy this idea of "it's 20+ years ago, it can't be done." Heck, it would be EASIER to do in alot of ways.

    Let it "rest in piece"? People want Optimus Prime. Starscream. Megatron/Galvatron. Transformers. Why do characters like Superman or Batman get some kind of general story and respect? It's the same idea. Sure, we get stories retold, but it's still Two Face, the Joker, etc. We don't wipe out and reshuffle the villains everytime, they are iconic. G1 lineup is the Avengers or The Justice League at this point. Why not show the same respect to the characters or stories? You can tell all new stories, just use a rough timeline and treat the characters as individuals, not just random names to throw around. Hasbro even seems to be kind of getting the idea, by saying WFC acts as a general prequel for the entire franchise. Now, apply that to a new show using the past as a general reference. It just makes sense.

    Or another way to look at it is the Star Wars prequels. Whether or not the actual dialogue or stories were any good, he didn't feel the need to say "ok, this is Star Wars happening over here in this OTHER continuity", and recast/reinvent Luke Skywalker and the whole cast. Same story. Same Universe. 20+ years later. It not only could be done, it should be done. Just let someone thats younger and has a modern idea pallette do it instead of the old man original writers. I'm looking at you, George Lucas. Superman Returns, while having a boring, weak script, managed to do a GREAT job of making a new movie in the same timeline decades later, feeling new while loosely referencing the past.

    Even Beast Wars, which people use as a counter argument, had enough sense to reference the originals, and BW came out many years after G1, so don't tell me "it can't be done".
     
  7. Jetbolt

    Jetbolt Maximal Air Commander

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    The only part of the G1 times I would like to see is the events just before the Maximals and Predacons came around. Just to see the final story of what happen to this bot or con. We know Ravage made it past the war and Grimlock too.

    To be honest I rather see a post BM Cybertron. I always wanted to see if the Predacons would try to take over. Or if the Maximals or Predacons liked their new looks. Or rather Optimus Primal is now consider to be greater then Prime. Or if they changed the "Spawn of Unicron" insult to "Spawn of Megatron". Yes, I've seen Shane's comic. But I wanted something that brings a toy line.
     
  8. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

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    I'm talking about the show continuity. Let that rest in piece. Want more stories with G1 characters? That's what we have the comics series for.
     
  9. SentinelPrime

    SentinelPrime I NEEDED THAT!

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    Man, I don't know. It still makes more sense to just say "this is Optimus Prime" instead of "this is Optimus Prime from the Energon universe" or "this is Megatron from the Animated universe."

    Even freakin Terminator tries to keep it together to some extent. That came out before Transformers! I'm really starting to think the "let it be" crowd may be the ones over thinking this. It would be so easy, and also make so much sense.

    And the comics, while not only sucking imo, are not the G1 stories continued, even those are a reboot universe, and a messy one at that! I liked the Dw stories the most, as they get the closest to what I'm saying, although they weren't post-S3 era. As far as new appearances or selling toys...they can reformat at any time!
     
  10. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Sorcerer

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    Longevity.

    Toy lines can only last for so long without going stale to their primary audience (children, for those who forget), any innovative and interesting gimmick will always get old eventually. As a result the line eventually suffers poor sales and ends. Every toy line has a set shelf life, successful ones can keep it going for many, many years, but eventually every line needs a break.

    You mention lines/franchises like the DC Animated one, who proves our point rather then yours. Despite loose connections to the earliest of series, it did end. Batman:TAS, Superman:TAS, Batman Beyond, JL, JLU, the line had a spectacular run, but it's coming to a final ending soon and that will be it. We had The Batman, Batman Brave and the Bold and the Animated movies are a new continuities with new takes and designs.

    Every brand has to reinvent itself to keep going. Look at the lines that have lasted, Transformers, Power Rangers, Batman. All of them have been around for a long time, but it was essential to all of them to change their look, setting, themes, and more to keep the line fresh enough that each iteration would sell. As a show, eventually you either run out of stories to tell or get so bogged down in continuity that either way you loose your audience to something fresher. As a toyline you only buy the main figures so many times (again, children, not obsessive collectors with 400 Bumblebees) so eventually you hit market saturation or you get the point where you're making figures that were on screen for 12 seconds like some of the Star Wars figures.

    Takara did manage something a bit different and closer to what you're suggesting with their own G1 series, in that G1 transistioned to Headmasters and then their following series rather then rebooted, but they didn't mire themselves in prior series continuity in the least, they actually would use the transistion to explain why some characters are still around but the majority of the cast is all new, in a new setting, etc. They didn't keep the old staple faces around just because that was how it was. Heck, they killed off most of those familiar faces. Even Rodimus Prime eventually left the series with Kup and others. However, een with that approach you essentially got a whole new main cast with each series and prior events to that series from prior ones were practically nonexistant. Similarly they used BWII and did a great job transistioning to BWNeo but you could easily watch the latter series without having seen the former and miss nothing except in the first and last episodes which did have some minor tie ins. Honestly, you can also only tie so much together with the same names or you run into the absolute mess that is Takara's foolish supertimeline which ties all the series together.

    The other choice they have is to have breaks. Taking several years off to allow the line to cool down, interest to regrow, and for a fresh new take can also allow the line to endure, like TMNT and Masters of the Universe have done, and even TF's during their longer breaks.

    So, ultimately the answer is, because they don't want to kill their own franchise. Reboots and retakes are necessary to keep the brand fresh so that it doesn't become toxic and unsellable. They could transistion each series, but it would mean not using Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream, Bumblebee, etc. in every series and instead changing the names as well as the faces, which Hasbro has stated that they'll never do. (Which again, allows the Takara transistions to work. Lio Convoy, Big Convoy, Fire Convoy, Micron Convoy, etc. instead of Optimus Primal, Optimus Primal, Optimus Prime, Optimus Prime.)



    No, it wasn't. If the 86 change killed the series, why was it a strong seller all the way through 1990? Which again illustrates that without breaks or reboots, the series just runs out of steam, as by that point all there were was Action Masters and Micromasters.

    What killed it was it's age, like so many lines, it just ran out of steam.
     
  11. SentinelPrime

    SentinelPrime I NEEDED THAT!

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    I do like your post a great deal, but I'm sticking with the concept that you can continue to tell new stories, even vastly different or fresh, and simply say it's the same characters. There's no need to keep going back and saying it's new versions when it's still Optimus, he still turns into a truck, Bumblebee is still a young, yellow car...I could go on. You can change the tone, the environment, certain new characters...I mean, it's a franchise where the characters can change appearance whenever they need to! It's the perfect built-in gimmick to keep things fresh...no need to say it's a "different continuity" every year or two.
     
  12. UKBrawn

    UKBrawn No arms just CLAWS!!

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    I always thought the same Sentinal, an I would absolutely love a follow on series from G1, but it would need the following:

    * New Style Animation.
    * Very loose connection to the original series. (Basically an explanation by a character as to how they got to earth, unicron and thats it)
    * New character designs and different voice actors. (These could have been classics but would need to be new again)

    Other than that it could pick up with the same cast, although they would need to limit it to a selection of main characters again to start off with. I would pay good money to see a series where Galvatron is the enemy again, Megatron is just so lame compared.

    Maybe you could start the series with 4 years of peace since ROOP, the group of Autobots chilling on earth, then out of the blue the Nemesis turns up with Galvatron,Cyclonus and Scourge, starts attacking things and the Autobots dont know whats going on, a new series is born.
     
  13. chugway

    chugway ming mong ping pong

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    a series like TFs starts with a small cast and builds up a big snowball of canon and cast as it goes. viewers keep upto pace with things and know what happened to get them to the point they're at. new toys meant new characters - christ, when headmasters came along, there was something like fifty new characters introduced.

    now you take the G1 universe at the end of series three, with a long story behind it and a combined cast of maybe a couple of hundred distinct characters. Making any sense of that would rely on you having seen all the previous cartoons, otherwise you're re-introducing them all, outlining the relationships and history of all these characters and sub-groups for new viewers, which is what the first three series were essentially doing!

    the only way to continue where series 3 left off is to re-do everything that lead to that point which would probably take.. oohh.. roughly three series. Hasbro aren't going to remake all of G1 just to pick up where they left off 20 years ago. They'll develop new properties that take from and reference that old stuff, like TFA and WFC....
     
  14. TRANSJAZZ

    TRANSJAZZ Fighting Cancer RIP 10/31/16 Veteran

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    I believe the Hard Wired book from a few years ago is in line with what Sentinal Prime is talking about. It G1 with new stories and a very good read. The idea behind those three novels could easily be turned into a cartoon and toyline. IMO
     
  15. HiKaizer

    HiKaizer Plot Botherer

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    Personally without any kind of judgement on whether G1 was good or bad, I would simply say sometimes things should have a finish. If they were to continue G1 further they'd risk the problem long-term comics have where there is simply so much that has happened it becomes hard to keep a track of what's happened and new readers can be intimidated on starting and be confused as to the world and characters.

    Japanese G1 in my opinion risks this and it is possibly a good thing that Zone didn't continue beyond an OVA. To be certain the Japanese continuity after they tried to link everything together is a little convoluted and strange. Without trying to speak for anyone, I will simply say I haven't seen much support for the way they treated it. So more isn't always better.

    That's why people need to do continuity reboots. A franchise has to constantly reinvent itself to continue selling, while remaining faithful to itself. If Transformers were to simply continue G1 into obscurity it would probably find itself starting to flounder somewhat.

    Look at Dragonball for example. Dragonball is a well loved series and many people also love Dragonball Z, but there is far less support for Dragonball GT. The story and scope had developed so far it was beyond any kind of suspension of disbelief. It is questionable as to how much it really benefited as a story from the addition of the third cartoon series.

    At any rate, my personal opinion is that G1 should be left closed. It's fine for the comics to re-explore that because they are a much more niche area of the franchise. But the animated features (and live action I suppose) and the toys need to constantly renew themselves so as to remain appealing and sell to the general public. There will always be those in the fandom that lament the old days and I won't belittle or pretend to deny them that. The fact is however they're not the real target audience for the franchise as a whole.

    Enjoy G1 for what it was, and if you want to continue you it can do so personally.
     
  16. Rodimus Primal

    Rodimus Primal Well-Known Member

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    I for one have always wanted G1 to at LEAST actually finish the original cartoon's story. Rebirth just didn't seem like a satisfying ending to me. It's been a desire of mine to see it continue but knowing how much the newer fans know about the original show is astounding. Many, probably a few here on this board, wonder who the characters in mine or others signatures are. I understand the need for reboot but Transformers has got to the point where THAT'S ALL IT IS. It's a new Optimus Prime vs Megatron for this year's 5 year olds.
     
  17. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Remember though, that the target audience would have been somewhere around -20 years old when the characters you want to continue were established. Its harder to get people to get into a story when you start them off halfway through, and when that previous half started when their parents were kids? Good luck.

    Also, you talk about fresh new stories, but there's only so much you can do with the same status quo. That's why they tried new gimmicks and settings in the first place, and that "ruined it". That's why the Japanese tried reboots, for which interest still died out.

    I think G1 is always going to have a place at the head of the table of TF fiction, and I think that many of the best elements can be recycled countless times, as is the same for Superman, Batman, etc. But I think making a direct continuation of a series 23 years after it ended (and that was followed by other direct continuations that you didn't like) is an extremely bad idea which would be terrible at best, and poisonous to its predescessor at worst.
     
  18. Steevy Maximus

    Steevy Maximus Movie Megs eats your soul

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    Hate to burst your bubble, but Resolute went over well with fans but didn't blip on the mass public's radar. Not only that, but the series was basically out of continuity with both the comic and cartoon, effectively making it a "quasi-reboot" with ties to both original mediums.

    It was not a direct continuation of either the Sunbow Cartoon series or Marvel comics.
     
  19. Galva-Cannon

    Galva-Cannon Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's likely to happen, but I'd like to see a direct G1 continuation too. We never found out what happened between Galvatron and Scorponok/Lord Zarak in the American cartoon continuity. :( 

    I don't think it will happen because the people who would make it probably hold the same views as the other people in this thread: G1 is old news, you can't live in the past etc.

    Personally I don't see why we couldn't have a new cartoon or something directly following on from The Rebirth part three. There's no reason why you'd have to explain the previous three and a bit seasons, or give any back story whatsoever. You could start the new show as if this was always meant to be the beginning, and introduce the characters to the audience as if for the first time.

    For example, the Autobots live on Cybertron in peace, here are the principle characters: a redesigned Optimus Prime, Goldbug, etc. No explanation is given for their slightly updated forms, they have always looked like that as far as the new audience is concerned. The same goes for Cybertron's golden look, but which we know signals that this show is set after the Rebirth. Another clue is that the Decepticons, who arrive on Cyberton in the first episode, are led by Galvatron, but Scorponok has leadership ambitions. We know why this is, but to the new audience there's nothing special about this situation that needs explaining. Then some train of events leads to both the Autobots and Decepticons leaving for earth, where they battle each other through various new stories... essentially rebooting the G1 series, but within the same continuity.

    Why wouldn't something like that work?
     
  20. Miggytron

    Miggytron Slag Sucking Saurian

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    A continuation of GI would be missing all of the core characters that we would want in a Transformers show (i.e. Ironhide, Starscream, Jazz, Prowl, Megatron etc etc)

    It'd be Optimus Prime, Goldbug and a bunch of Headmaster jabronies and the idiot version of Grimlock. Oh and have you forgotten about the green guys that became the headmasters heads?

    No. Please no. G1 is watchable because of nostalgia and the filter of time, but I would not be able to stomach the return of Primacron the monkey, Unicron's creator.
     

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