Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by daimchoc, Jul 15, 2017.
Sure, I only have MP10
There are no shells...
If I had to guess, based on the renders, is that the sides of the biceps of the combined mode are hollow to allow the limb bots to tuck inside. Giving the appearance that it's shells
Are you guessing or do you know something? I'm guessing no shells but it's a guess based on the pics I've seen so far. Guessing most of the mass comes from motormaster but this is how he looked in the toon. No matter how this combines, it's the best looking menasor ever
Oooh what did I miss? A free MP collection up for grabs?! Hell yeah I'm in!
In all seriousness though, no need to be silly and do something guaranteed to end in a mess for somebody for the sake of an internet debate among fellow hobbyists. I've no desire to have someone's MP collection (assuming MMM even has one - could be a trick!) nor give mine away. But nevertheless I'm confident to put my money where my mouth is - a few pages back I bet @TCJJ the Deadend figure but he went silent. So what do you say @MegaMoonMan - Deadend figure? Or a gentlemanly 10 bucks?
But if we're serious should clarify positions so we agree, because to be honest I'm not sure we are really making directly opposing claims suitable for a bet. My claim is just to understand the workings of the current design as presented. I.e. what we are looking at right now I believe is realized by faux up-scaled car parts fit over the actual split-in-two car bots. I'm not making a prediction about the final product, because I'm not claiming to be a fortune teller - they might change the design and release something completely and obviously different. But I think you're not so much commenting on the current design, but making a prediction about the final product. I.e. whatever it might look like now, ain't no way the final product is coming with faux car shells.
So if we have a bet, the conditions are something like... if they release the current design pretty much as it is, and it turns out it is indeed realized by using faux car shells, I win. If they release the current design but it turns out what we see was in fact realized by clever voodoo apparent mass shifting transformation, or the arm bots are actually simply a larger scale to the leg bots, or something else my simple mind hasn't thought of, I lose. But if they clearly just change the design completely, which will be obvious by appearance, then bet off.
I "went silent" because I couldn't be bothered with a fruitless argument, and because I have better things to do than just sit here looking at threads all day (well, most days, anyway).
And people go on about me writing long posts...
But to humour you: I still disagree with everything you're seeing. I've looked at your "proof" dozens of times but I still think you're grasping at straws.
Does it really matter if they're bigger? As I said, Menasor's CAD model doesn't necessarily have to be 1:1 and "work", so it doesn't really matter. It's entirely possible that the cars shown in combined mode are only part of the Menasor CAD model and not part of the separate CAD models.
And if that is the case, they don't have to be 1:1, and this Menasor CAD model would be more for reference (and marketing) than actual production, which makes more sense to me than the alternative of making five 100% working CAD models that can also fully combine (I'm not saying it's not possible, but that's a lot of extra work just for a reference image).
I already said all of this, at least in so many words, but you seem to have ignored that entire argument and proceeded to cherry-pick what I said so you could rebut whatever you found most convenient.
I may not agree with him much but I'm with @MegaMoonMan on this one.
And hey, if anyone wants to bet on my collection, you'll have to pay shipping. From New Zealand. It would cost you hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars. If I can bankrupt someone that way, I'm happy to oblige. Oh, we have to pay export tax too. Our tax is 15%, so you'll have to add that on top.
Point is, I'd make sure I make a profit, so it's not really worth it.
And no, I'm not going to bet on anything where I have to buy someone an $80 (NZD, in case you're wondering). I can rarely afford to buy figures for myself, let alone others.
I’m all for companies trying new things. That’s how we get innovation and better products. Not everything tried will be a hit but it’s better than doing the same old thing that doesn’t really work well. Almost every combine has a hick up to over come.
If the combiner functions independent of the possible faux parts, and they are for cosmetic reasons, im interested see how it turns out.
I have CW Devy and picked up a faux cab for mix master so it looked better in combined mode. I didn’t have problem with that, and I still consider it a “combiner”.
I realized betting my MP collection is stupid - I don't need a second. I'd bet the $10 but I don't like your terms. Way too much slip room for you to get out.
I'm thinking more like this - if it ends up with shells in the arms you win, if none I win. The current render can't have any bearing on it, (that's kinda my point in the first place.) I'm betting on end product, nothing but. The final toy WILL NOT have car shells that go over the existing cars, that's the only thing I will bet on and the only point I'm trying to make.
Have any preorders for the other units gone up yet? I only see the one so far.
Apologies if you don't think I've given your entire argument due consideration. That's kinda how I feel when I make a detailed post with annotated screengrabs for examples, then all I get is 'meh you cant tell anything at all cos its just a render!'
I actually just disagree with your view above on how they are likely to create and use their 3d models. I occasionally design in 3D CAD as part of my job and know enough about the process to confidently believe that the reality is almost certainly contrary to what you say above.
Their Menasor model absolutely 100% will be an assembly of the five fully working component bot models (plus combiner parts). That's the only way to design the thing! You don't just design the individual bots in isolation and hope they fit together. You actually assemble them together so that you can design interfacing features between two components at the same time and simultaneously check interference, etc. If they're smart, and I'm sure they are, many features are modeled parametrically - i.e. there are linked relationships between corresponding features of the separate models. For example designer wants to change the size/location of a combiner port on the Menasor skeleton, then the corresponding peg on, say, Deadend automatically updates itself so everything all still fits and works. Or change the Menasor left thigh part length, then the right thigh part automatically updates itself to match, etc etc.
It would in fact be making a Menasor model that isn't an assembly of the separate individual models that would be the pointless extra work just for a reference image. You just don't need to make a 'mockup' when you just open the Menasor skeleton model, import Deadend, mate it, import Dragstrip, mate it, etc etc. Making 3D model Menasor just took less time than combining the finished toys will in real life (and in reality they already did this long ago in the design process - now every time they want to see how Menasor is looking they can just load up the assembly and it'll automatically grab the latest versions of the individual models and update).
From that understanding I'm pretty confident that essentially 'what we see is what we get'. We are absolutely looking at the full detailed current state of the design. That's why I can confidently do some 'detective work' looking closely at small parts and features to try to figure out the workings. I'm confident everything I see represents an actual intended feature and has a reason for existing in the context of the overall design. I can be pretty confident errors like the arm cars being presented at completely the wrong scale aren't at all likely, and I'm not being fooled into the wrong conclusions by features that are just made up and drawn in to make a powerpoint slide.
For example I can look at this feature...
It appears to be part of the Porsche, but there is actually no part on the Porsche exactly like that (the actual Porsche bot's B-pillar is right below that in the picture). I'm confident I'm looking at an actual part of the design, not just some artifact of a scaling error, or just something drawn in on this 'mockup', so it must have an explanation, so I conclude it must be part of the faux car shell, along with the partial door, rear fender, wheel and rear wing (in another view you can see the actual rear wing right below that faux bigger rear wing).
And so on and so on. You could of course well be right. All part of the fun.
Hmm well then it's like I said - we don't neccesarily have directly opposing views, we are just saying different but related things. I'm just looking at the current renders, taking them at face value (i.e. they represent the actual design without glaring errors or omissions) and suggesting how I think it is physically realized. And you are predicting the final toy wont be designed a certain way.
If I accept your terms I'm opening myself to lose not only if I'm wrong about my claims, but also if XTB decide to change the design. For example XTB could come out and say yes there are faux shells, then everyone goes mental, XTB ditch that idea and the final product comes with no faux shells. I'd have been right, but I still lose! That's why my terms said the bet is off if the design changes.
but what the hell it's only 10 bucks so you're terms are OK! So I'm not only betting on my 'detective work' but I'm also counting on XTB not altering the overall concept. That's fair enough as my experience is by the time we see such detailed renders things very rarely change significantly. So I'm reasonably confident XTB wont change the concept, and damn confident the concept is faux shells. So you're on.
Noone will have to pay anything because XTB will quietly not release this thing
It's a bet. I'll even give it to you if we see a testshot with shells, regardless of if they change their mind after public outcry. No way they are that stupid to even consider it.
See you in 2-3 years.
Lol probably right. You got time to save then
Xtb is going outta business im almost sure of it.
No..I will put up MMM's collection as well.
Honestly, on that pic you circled, it just looks like the arms are combiner parts, including the joints, and the “limb bots” roughly split in half, then attach to the arms. The combiner parts look to have additional faux car parts that are to the actual cars to form some semblance of integration. That is my assumption as to why the arm bots seem bigger than the leg bots.
Yeah that's exactly what I think too. The circled part is kind of a 'smoking gun' to me revealing the use of faux car parts, because while most of the faux car parts look like just up-scaled actual car parts, so one could argue maybe they do come from the limb bot, that circled part isn't any part of a Porsche 928. It's a made up filler part. So that bit can't come from the limb bot and must therefore be a faux part.
What if there are some faux car parts, but no car shells? For example, the seemingly larger tires are fake and part of the combiner arm while the car that plugs in over it is still the actual car?
I think that seems possible. There may be faux parts that are part of the skeleton, and the cars just attach in a way that makes them appear to be part of the same object.
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