X-Transbots MX Series Berserkars / Monolith (Stunticons/Menasor)

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by daimchoc, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. luckyman76

    luckyman76 Well-Known Member

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    This was not easy to transform but all of my tabs lined up perfectly. I think the key was the order of transformation. I would go back and watch several videos but there are a couple of key points. There is a small piece under the cockpit console that needs to be folded up at the right time. The murder of releasing the seat in the cockpit. How you finesse the nose pieces to collapse correctly. There are little nuances that most of us are missing. Once I got those down it worked well. Take your time. I was sure I would have to sand based on what I heard from everyone and it was simply a matter of getting the transformation correct.
     
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  2. MajinSin

    MajinSin Decepticon

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    I transformed mine about twice before I heard of the tab problem and it was fine. I had issues collapsing the part around his head though. Its not the best transformation, far from it but I was one of the lucky ones based on what's been posted here.
     
  3. Liampope

    Liampope Well-Known Member

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    A render isn't, as someone else mentioned 'just a drawing'. It is generated from a fully working piece by piece 3D model of the entire design, including all it's engineering. By the time we ever get to see them, the design, transformation, etc - is usually pretty much done. Generally we don't see big changes - usually only the aesthetics/surface detailing or some proportion tweaks, never really the basic underlying engineering.

    All we have seen change with this is the proportions of the combiner mode legs (easy to change as they are just parts fit into a trailer), and we have seen the combiner 'skeleton' surface detailed out. The limb bots haven't changed at all and the combiner arms have always shown correct scale (i.e. same scale as leg bots) car parts with larger scale car parts surrounding/over them. Not sure what you are referring to by 'obvious flaws' in the renders?

    It's simple enough in my mind at least. The arm bots split in half just like the video says, plug into the combiner arms just like the video says, faux shells go over the top partially covering them and giving the impression they are larger scale cars, for toon accuracy. Nothing about that is at odds with what is said in the video or shown in pictures. In fact, on the contrary, I fail to see how you conclude 'it seems pretty clear that they're not faux car shells' from what is presented.

    It does seem if you don't like the idea of faux parts it might be possible to toss them in the garbage and just leave the actual arm bot halfs on display. They'll just be smaller and less cartoon accurate looking. That assumes the faux parts are separate partsforming parts and not integrated into the arm skeleton/frame.

    And yes it does seem you could omit Dragstrip and Deadend altogether if you really wanted. It will look a bit pants though - e.g. the Porsche windows and roof you see are all of the actual Deadend figure. If you omit him all you'll have is the faux hood, wheels, front and rear fenders, and gaping hollow holes inside. Similar situation with Dragstrip on the other side.

    I'll quote again my previous observations...

    ...and add a new one - further evidence. I was wondering about Dragstrip since whilst Deadend is clearly just in car mode split in half and plugged into the arm, then faux hood/fender shells on top, that don't seem to work so well for an open wheeled F1 car. The answer is the front half of Dragstrip actually seems to be partially transformed into his bot mode configuration before being plugged into the arm. That explains two observations - one, why we see his engine flipped up into the cockpit as it is in bot mode, and two, my new observation, why we see his front wing folded in two just as it is in bot mode...

    frontwing.jpg

    So the larger scale front wing sticking up is clearly an additional faux part (as are the wheels, rear wing, side pods etc etc).

    For me at least there is no other explanation that stands up to detailed scrutiny. 'It's only a render' and 'I really don't think they'd do that' don't hold up against the evidence, imho.

    Anyway I'm not looking for argument - this is fun discussion for me! I enjoy looking at the pics we get and figuring out the engineering - most notably with official MP reveals (I figured out UMs arm transformation, the the torso, and did a full transforming 3D model of Ironhide just from initial pics - yeah a nerd who had a lot of free time back then!). As for whether I'm right or not, we'll see, but my track record so far isn't bad :) .
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  4. TCJJ

    TCJJ 111% Tank Engine

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    You're grasping at straws, especially with those pixelated images of Dragstrip.

    We already know the CAD model was upscaled when 598 changed the size of Menasor, and the proportions thusly changed between renders. I know what a CAD model is, but it's still not 1:1 with the final product.
    And you're wrong - by the time we get to see them, the design isn't always finished. Ultimately, it's still just a CAD model, and there's a lot more you can do in software than with actual plastic. If it was a resin prototype or some such, you might have an argument, but as-is, I fail to see how you've disproved anything I said.

    Besides, that's just silly to have the cars turn into the arms, then put BIGGER car pieces over top of those. What a waste of plastic. I don't think XTB are that wasteful. That'd be a lot of extra plastic to include for the price, so then they'd have to come with Motormaster, and since Motormaster is already coming with two friggin' trailers, that seems highly excessive. I don't see it happening. I'm not saying it won't but I highly doubt it. It makes a lot more sense that they wouldn't be faux parts.
    On top of that, the whole argument all along has been that those aren't even the actual cars, or the cars are put inside the arm blocks, or something like that, but we know from the video that's not the case, so that makes it even less likely there would be faux parts.
    And ultimately, why do they need faux car parts if the real car parts are right there? Scale? Well, we already know the bigger arms are because the CAD model was upscaled. It's not like that CAD model is going to be 1:1 because they're not using it to 3D-print Menasor as-is or anything. In fact, why does this particular CAD model even need to be able to transform or anything like that? If anything, it's just representative of the final product - as far as we know, this is a separate CAD model from the individual five robots, which would explain the lack of consistency between part sizes (i.e. they don't need to be consistent because it's not a model designed to transform).
     
  5. Nighthawkblack

    Nighthawkblack Well-Known Member

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    I'm ok with faux as long as it's not parts forming. Waiting for breakdown sucks but when he is released, hopefully the instructions will give us a preview on combined mode.
     
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  6. GeneralLeeSpkng

    GeneralLeeSpkng Purveyor of Futility

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    Can you clarify how faux parts aren't parts forming? I would think parts that are not the robot or the alt mode of the individual characters fit the bill.
     
  7. Liampope

    Liampope Well-Known Member

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    Grasping at straws? Pixelated? Yes they are pixelated, but clear enough to easily id those front wing parts? Absolutely! And it's just a coincidence they are in the same configuration as the figure's bot mode? Could be I guess.

    You really think the whole bigger arm cars thing is explained by a big mistake in the render?! Several months after first showing them, they generate full colour presentation quality renders to present at a panel at a show, and they still haven't fixed the mistake and downscaled the arm cars??? Sure. That's grasping at straws imho. And that still doesn't explain why there are two scales of car parts visible on the arms, one matching the leg cars, and in some cases duplicate car parts - clearly two sets of Porsche B-pillar and two sets of Dragstrip front wing, and potentially/speculatively both Dragstrip rear wings and both Porsche front bumper/lips are visible, but less certain on that.

    Not sure the point you're making with 598 scaled something up and that's the cause of it all - any render we've seen of combined mode has always had the arm cars bigger than the leg bots (but as above, with matching scale parts also visible).

    I've never personally made the argument that the arm bots are not used at all, and don't recall anyone has. I've always suggested the arm cars are used, partially visible and partially covered by the larger scale shells. Seems I wasn't the first to point it out either - @EpsilonEta made the same observations back in July that I somehow missed. Here he indicates exactly what is fake on Deadend...

    Why they do it? Like you say, cartoon accurate scale seems to be the only explanation. Waste of plastic? On a product where Motormaster comes with two entire trailers, one seemingly just to make a giant base mode (but maybe there are so many combiner pieces it stores some of those too?), that ship has already sailed!

    It doesn't seem that stupid to me at all. Optional accessories to increase cartoon accuracy (assuming you can just choose not to fit them - although the Dragstrip arm might then look a bit poor since his front end seems to be partially transformed as above, but maybe if you don't use the faux parts you can flip the front wing back to car mode and it'll look OK?). Use them or don't use them. Win win.

    I cant wait to find out either way. I'll happily bet you the gift of the Deadend figure that I'm right - fancy your chances? :) 
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  8. Liampope

    Liampope Well-Known Member

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    Not speaking for the guy, but if we already assume, which I think is the general consensus, that there is some giant Menasor skeleton/framework made from one trailer, that Motormaster and the car bots all kinda plug/nestle into. Sort of a 6th member of the team almost. If we accept that, and if that turns out to be one piece, faux arm cars shells and all (like the arms open up, the car bot halves plug in, and the faux shells close over, etc) then we might agree it's not very partsformy at all, or at least minimum partsformy. Personally if it works like that I'd find it quite a satisfying overall combination, even if it isn't toy/toon accurate. But if the combiner parts and faux car bits are just a pile of separate bits and combination is like building a model kit, then we can bash it for being even more partsformy than the most partsforming combiner seen so far!
     
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  9. xZAOx

    xZAOx Yep.

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    Liam has done his homework, and pictures don't lie. It's been real fun seeing him dissect these CAD renders.

    It would help if Keith would just come out and admit what Liam has already figured out, lol. I guess some would be turned off, but I love it.

    It's a way to really suit both crowds. It's cartoon accurate, and if you don't like the faux shells for the arms, then don't use them. But it shows the parts do go into place - kinda like how MP Cheetor "cheats" with his animal head. It shows the transformation does work, but they have a fake one just to get cartoon accuracy.
     
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  10. Prime135

    Prime135 Cyber Planet Key holder for "This Land" TFW2005 Supporter

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    I still wish they hadent upscale him.
     
  11. Nighthawkblack

    Nighthawkblack Well-Known Member

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    Sure, I consider partsforming to be Lego parts. When you have to grab separate unattached peices to form the combined mode like G1 was.
     
  12. Liampope

    Liampope Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I also think it’s pretty cool. A unique and interesting combiner design that achieves toon accuracy in all modes! And hopefully the faux car bits are optional accessories for those turned off by the idea. How else does anyone think they have achieved arm cars much bigger than the leg cars short of actually making the limb bots in different scales (now that would be crazy!)?
     
  13. MegaMoonMan

    MegaMoonMan OFFICIAL MMM REP

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    Its a CAD drawing. There is no guarantee that its finished or accurate. To use it as proof of anything is foolish.
     
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  14. Big Bronze Rim

    Big Bronze Rim ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    It's proof in as far as what we have seen to this point. Does it mean it could still change? Absolutely.
     
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  15. Chrisola

    Chrisola Solid crotch ratchet

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    stop-posting.jpg
     
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  16. Liampope

    Liampope Well-Known Member

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    Things could indeed be tweaked. However the idea that the basic underlying design philosophy isn’t concrete, and that the giant looking arm cars could be just an oops we upscaled the arms but forgot about the legs mistake (that they haven’t fixed for several months and presented at a show panel) is crazy. I have yet to see any convincing alternative explanations for the specific suggestions I’ve made - just meh it’s only a render hand waving.

    Hope we get more concrete from XTB soon.
     
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  17. Liampope

    Liampope Well-Known Member

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  18. MegaMoonMan

    MegaMoonMan OFFICIAL MMM REP

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    I will bet my MP collection that there are no car shells that go over the existing cars. There's bad partsforming design, and then there's THAT. No way they would be that incompetent and wasteful as to add a slightly bigger shell over what already exists.

    The arm guys split apart, yes, and the whole thing is a giant skeleton that doesn't even need the members to form, yes, but that's as bad as it gets (that's pretty damn bad already).
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  19. Snaku

    Snaku Well-Known Member

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    Are you just trying to troll now? It's proof that they designed it a certain way. Cuz you know... it's the design. Is it proof that the toy is absolutely going to work like this when it's done? Technically not. Just like a physical prototype it even a test shot isn't proof of what the final product will be. But this cad is the design. To argue that it has no bearing on what the product will be is foolish. Unless xtb got so far as to have a finished cad render along with prototypes of one of the figures and then they decide, "eh, nevermind. Scrap the whole thing and start over," then I'd say that all probability points to it being representative if what the figures will be.

    Aaaaand I just realized I'm arguing about this even though it's pointless. Turns out that all it takes to push my buttons is people stubbornly refusing to acknowledge the facts mixed with a little bit of condescension. "Foolish!" Sure. We're looking at actual facts and evidence while you're just pointing out that maybe the designers could possibly change their minds about a fundamental design decision this late into the game and we're the foolish ones. For that matter we can't prove the sun will rise tomorrow so maybe assuming that it will is foolish? Grow up.
     
  20. MegaMoonMan

    MegaMoonMan OFFICIAL MMM REP

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    It's proof that they have a mockup picture, nothing more. Unless you created the CAD you have zero insight into how much it resembles the final toy. It's not a difficult concept. A picture =/= final physical form. To say different IS foolish. Maybe the limbs are just placeholders. Maybe the whole thing is a placeholder. WHO KNOWS? Not us, since we didn't draw it.

    Grow up indeed. You are right about one thing - it's dumb to argue about it. I stand behind betting my MP collection on there being no shells. Who will take me up on that bet?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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