WTF @ TFW - 539 - November 28 2018

Discussion in 'WTF @ TFW Transformers Podcast' started by Vangelus, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Vangelus

    Vangelus Long Live the New Flesh Moderator Content Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2002
    Posts:
    15,351
    News Credits:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Likes:
    +349
    Ebay:
    WTF @ TFW - 539 - November 28 2018

    money_inc_wtf.jpg

    Finances. Seth and Vangelus know everything about finances, and it's time to talk about them. Money finances.

    - Opening
    - Intro
    - MP-44 Optimus Prime is Expensive
    - Bumblebee Movie's G1 Designs
    - Listener Question from primestudio
    - What We Got This Week
    - Ending and Outro

    iTunes users - You can subscribe to and review the podcast here:
    iTunes Store

    Zune user - You can still subscribe here, I think:
    zune://subscribe/?WTF@TFW=http://wtf.tfw2005.com/feed/podcast

    The RSS feed can be found here, with a link to the show file:
    WTF @ TFW Transformers Podcast - TFW2005.com

    Or you can click below. But please subscribe to us, it's more professional that way!
    http://www.tfw2005.net/podcast/WTF_TFW2005_-_539_-_Nov_28_2018.mp3
     
  2. RNSrobot

    RNSrobot Keeper of the Waspinator Swarm. Blam.

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Posts:
    1,551
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +1,287
    I don't know what is going on but all the stars for money inc.
     
  3. Requiem Prime

    Requiem Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Posts:
    1,044
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +518
    I liked the movie designs, out of context and with a lot of caveats. I think that's the issue.
    That's why I enjoy the studio series, it's been long enough I don't have to care about the movies and just ask do I like this design and is it a good toy?

    That being said, I need to stop being a collector and a just get one or two things a quarter like when I was a kid. Too many outlets, too many options. I need to cherry-pick a quest for a few things and indulge in that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Electro Rush

    Electro Rush Just a guy waiting for the perfect Whirl TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Posts:
    7,908
    Trophy Points:
    282
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Likes:
    +4,424
    Vangelus, you failed us this week, Where is mah skinny legged Prime?
     
  5. Vangelus

    Vangelus Long Live the New Flesh Moderator Content Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2002
    Posts:
    15,351
    News Credits:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Likes:
    +349
    Ebay:
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Electro Rush

    Electro Rush Just a guy waiting for the perfect Whirl TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Posts:
    7,908
    Trophy Points:
    282
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Likes:
    +4,424
  7. Prime135

    Prime135 Cyber Planet Key holder for "This Land" TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Posts:
    13,193
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    307
    Location:
    New Cybertron
    Likes:
    +13,243
    The moment I realized I was a collector was when I got MP bluestreak, transformed him twice, then immediately put him on a shelf. Think I was like 15 at the time.

    Also when Seth said “bull in a china shop” all I could picture was [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Gojira Prime

    Gojira Prime Narf

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Posts:
    2,085
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +64
    Vangelus' story of becoming a collector is basically mine. I just never stopped buying toys and somewhere around turning 13 I realized "I guess I'm a collector now."

    Also anyone who doesn't get excited about the inclusion of Angela Bassett doesn't deserve good movies.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Kamen Ranger Bat

    Kamen Ranger Bat That's what you say when someone kicks the...

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Posts:
    1,031
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Location:
    New York city
    Likes:
    +1,417
    Google+:
    YouTube:
    Vangelus. My name is tony and I too do a line a of coke
    0943B325-9E7C-49B6-93B2-542692312CB7.jpeg

    (This is what you were talking about......right?)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. KevinSig

    KevinSig Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Posts:
    1,569
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Likes:
    +126
    Twitter:
    Vangelus, while I generally love your quirky viewpoints, I think you're WAY off base thinking that the 3rd parties had any idea that an expensive new MP Optimus Prime was right around the corner. Honestly, I think it's just a coincidence. Third parties saw how MP-10 didn't match the aesthetic of MP-36, and figured they could make a MP style Optimus that was a better match. Takara pays attention to the same market & came to the same conclusion.

    It's the same with DX-9's & Maketoys's MP Megatrons. Both thought they could make a better MP style Megatron than X-Transbots, but Takara came to the same conclusion at roughly the same time. Takara pays attention to the market, and I suspect they at least pay attention to the 3rd party for market research, and saw the desire for a MP style Megatron.

    And while there will likely be a KO of Optimus eventually, I don't think we can count on a good one. The unique faces & parts that came with Toy House Factory & Infinite Transformation indicate (to me at least) that stolen CAD files seem almost certain.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. sideswipe29

    sideswipe29 Collect what makes you happy

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Posts:
    1,286
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Michigan
    Likes:
    +1,234
    Ebay:
    Twitter:
    I don't have a lot of skin in the game when it comes to masterpiece because 1.) I don't care for G1 all that much and 2.) I don't want to spend that kind of money on a transformer that I don't care about. So, take this post with a grain of salt or what have you.

    I have to say though that I disagree with Vangelus and his idea that Siege Optimus Prime is an okay substitute for V3 Optimus Prime. I understand where he was going with the point but Seth hit the nail on the head that I think a lot of collectors will look at Siege Prime and just think he is too cheap and too dull to be an adequate replacement for the "masterpiece aesthetic."

    The only MP figure I own in the KO Voyager size MP-10. I love that figure and I think that fills in that void of masterpiece style figure but at only a fraction of the cost. Does it in some way diminish the value of full size MPs?

    Maybe, but I can't help but empathize with other collectors who don't have the space or the budget to collect current MPs but don't view mainline as being a "high end" collectible that isn't made just for kids. I do feel that there should be more of a middle ground of folks like that and I wish there were more figures being made that could fit with KO MP-10V.

    Heck, I'm still advocating for a line of highly detailed, very articulated, non-transforming figures that are around $40-60. The closest we're getting to that is Flame Toys model kits, but that's another issue entirely.

    I appreciate that Vangelus and all the podcast guys are willing to have this discussion and I see their point but something about it all just sits with me weirdly and I can't help but think that there should be something to fill in that middle ground.

    Anyways, that's my rant. Time to get back to studying for final exams.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. RocketJMox

    RocketJMox New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Posts:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Likes:
    +5
    On becoming a Collector...

    ...from the Beginning...from the freaking Beginning.

    Back in the 80's, the hot phrase was "Collect them all!" It was plastered on every package, every commercial, every promo. Gotta gotta gotta-catch-em-all!
    And I took it to heart in so far as a very poor lower middle class kid could.

    I remember clearly a conversation I had with my aunt over what I wanted for Christmas. I told her I wanted the Galoob A-Team set.
    Her reply: "But I thought you were collecting Star Wars? Wouldn't you rather have more Star Wars toys for your collection? You really want to start another line?"
    I couldn't have been more than 9 or 10 at the time and that stuck with me.

    I always knew it was more than about the playtime and the stories of galactic warfare, but it was also about the checklist -- to have as many as I could afford and put on display.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. RocketJMox

    RocketJMox New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Posts:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Likes:
    +5
    I think the point is that Generations is the middle ground in as much as economics and engineering realities allow for it. I don't think it's fair to look at MP-10V and declare it to be the standard bearer for the middle-ground idea. Largely, it goes back to the age-old KO arguments. Simply put, KBB just doesn't have the same overhead as HasTak -- They didn't pay for engineering, don't have to comply with regulatory agencies, don't have to market their product, etc. etc. If HasTak produced MP-10V, it would still be about $120, maybe more, since he compares well in terms of material with a car robots MP. That's not much of a middle ground, for me as the consumer or for HasTak.

    I think that from HasTak's perspective, Generations (and Studio Series, for that matter) are the middle ground. Otherwise, why the relative slavish attention to detail (at least compared to Cyberverse, RID, or the main movie lines). SS Jazz, for example, has no business having the level of intricate detail and paint applications that he does...unless he's a mid-level toy intended to please collectors on a budget! If you compare a good RID/Cyberverse toy with most Generations and any Masterpiece, the tiering is obvious. Now go see how your local retailer actually stocks toys. Tons of RID/Cyberverse, a little bit of Generations/SS, and no MP.

    So tl;dr --
    I don't think the middle ground you describe is feasible for HasTak. Generations/SS is the middle ground, even if they don't compare as well to true MP.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. sideswipe29

    sideswipe29 Collect what makes you happy

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Posts:
    1,286
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Michigan
    Likes:
    +1,234
    Ebay:
    Twitter:
    I can agree with most of that. I guess I struggle to accept that HasTak would charge $120 for their version of MP-10V but how they decide to price their products is well outside my realm of expertise. And you make a good point that KBB doesn't have nearly the same costs that HasTak does which does factor into what type of price tag a product gets.

    Maybe my post was a little too specific and made it seem like I wanted a middle ground from specifically HasTak. Personally, I'd be happy if any company (official or 3rd Party) tried to make more figures that fit into the MP-10V aesthetic. However, I'm quickly realizing that all of this is basically me standing on a soap box and saying, "This is something I like and I don't understand why it doesn't exist." Ultimately, it doesn't really solve any problems.

    You might be right that HasTak's solution to this middle ground is the Generations Line and if they feel like that is producing the results they want then I can't really blame them. It ultimately just proves that I'm just not the customer that HasTak is aiming for. :p 
     
  15. Vangelus

    Vangelus Long Live the New Flesh Moderator Content Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2002
    Posts:
    15,351
    News Credits:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Likes:
    +349
    Ebay:
    I think an easy positive thing to overlook in the current era (I forget it constantly when I focus in a bit hard on one thing) is like, we often actually have example pieces to cite as "I bought this and I wish there was more of it!" Rather than simply feeling unhappy or unsatisfied with intended mainline product & having to kinda leave it at that.

    I dunno if that makes sense :lol 
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. koonfasa

    koonfasa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Posts:
    2,959
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +841
    That’s coz they seen us pay Sentinel prices.

    That transformers movie is only about Bumblebee right? So those cybertron scenes are only flashbacks and probably all we get of those characters?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. sideswipe29

    sideswipe29 Collect what makes you happy

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Posts:
    1,286
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Michigan
    Likes:
    +1,234
    Ebay:
    Twitter:
    Transformers as a franchise is in a very unique spot right now with all of the options that we have to buy what we want.

    I don't really follow a franchise besides transformers so I cannot speak to what their collecting is like but it seems like Transformers is one of the few brands that has a rich 3rd party scene that is willing to give us products that offical HasTak wouldn't.

    So even if there are gaps or holes in the market, we as a fanbase are still very privileged to have as many options as we do.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Spyne98

    Spyne98 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2011
    Posts:
    2,698
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +448
    Ebay:
    As you said in the beginning of the podcast, I'm a normal dude with a normal job and I don't think I'll be able to afford the new MP Prime. A lite version would be awesome. I would even hope for a lite Toys R Us release, but I'm in the states. So I guess that's out.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. RocketJMox

    RocketJMox New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Posts:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Likes:
    +5
    Privilege, indeed. I'm an old G1-er that just recently started collecting again (2016). So my experience has been a bit of a time warp. I very much appreciate where we are now. We have KNEES! and ELBOWS!

    That said, if I can make a somewhat sideways comment that's related. I do desperately miss the (to use a Vangelus term) handfeel of the old toys -- The heft, the diecast, the rubber wheels! So if there's a "middle tier" that I long for, it's simply upscaling the build quality. Keep the current designs and poseability, show-accurate or not, but just use better plastics, real metal, rubber wheels (of the non-disintegrating kind!). Heck, they can even keep the hollowness -- the hollow forearms and calves. Just upgrade the materials! I'll easily pay a "Takara Tax" for this. I've even picked up Takara releases, paid the 100% up-charge, for figures that at least look like they're better made.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. badlander86

    badlander86 Expendable Tactician

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Posts:
    934
    Trophy Points:
    132
    Location:
    Singapore
    Likes:
    +61
    Unfortunately toys are not a regulated market and in a capitalist society, Takara Tomy is within their rights to price their product at the level it is. It then comes down to we the consumers and where we stand on this new price change. Factors of the high cost could be numerous but ultimately its a matter of what the target audience is. Seth and Vangelus have started to get into tabletop again so they would know the insane pricing conventions made by companies like Games Workshop whom also have another insanely priced "premium" sub-line called Forge World. And I sometimes outright wonder who the heck buys all this stuff?

    Same with Bowen Statues I see in the Comics store, priced anywhere between 500 to a 1000 bucks. Who buys this stuff? Someone has to be if they can still sustain their company.

    Pricing out the consumer sucks. But let's not kid ourselves. There was a period of time in the hey-day of early 3rd party where fans where buying toys at just as exorbitant prices. I think the shock comes from the fact that this is a price point coming from Takara Tomy which a vast majority of fans do not expect prices like that for, especially on a character like Optimus Prime whom everyone would want.
     

Share This Page