WTF is Jetfire talking about: DECP/AUTO allegiance is "an intensely personal choice?"

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by billcosby, Nov 27, 2009.

  1. billcosby

    billcosby Geewin

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    In Revenge of the Fallen, Jetfire suggests a Transformer must choose to become a Depecticon or Autobot and also informs Wheelie he may change sides. Wheelie celebrates by humping Megan Fox's leg. Celebrate too, if you will.

    This raises many questions about Tformers in the Bayverse. Are Transformers born as hatchlings to either side, or do they remain neutral until they choose sides? How often do they change sides? WTF is Jetfire going on about?

    Also... why are the kitchenbots Decepticons? If the allspark brought them to life what made them come to life as Decepticons. I'm assuming they are 'cons as the toyline suggests Ejector is, plus they spend their existence trying to kill the Witwickys.

    I don't understand how Tformers are created or born in the Bayverse and which side they are on at creation. Any insight?
     
  2. Dinobot Nuva

    Dinobot Nuva Johnny 3 Tears Veteran

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    Defiance explained it very well. The initial split seemed to be between Megatron's military forces and Prime's scientific-research types. There were outliers though, Ironhide decided to enlist with Prime despite the fact that he had served with the likes of Megs and Screamer.
     
  3. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

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    The kitchen-bots aren't Cons. They're just feral life forms that react in a hostile manner to anything around them. Where the toyline is concerned, Ejector was most probably lumped with the Cons merely for simplicity's sake.
     
  4. Shotoman

    Shotoman Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so in the Bayverse, Transformers are "hatched" from protoform-like pods. In Movie 2 we see the 'Cons trying to breed up a whole bunch of these protoform like things, which would indicate that they'd be born Decepticons, right. Not neccesarily. Transformers--as in actual Cybertronian Transformers--are sentient, intellegent beings, and like any sentient, intellegent beings, there is some nature over nurture issues going on. These hatchings, had they been able to survive, would have been 'raised' as Decepticons, and would beocme Decepticons, or, probably, die. Note that even Wheelie only sided with the 'Cons out of fear. And as to the Allspark-created Transformers, like Toaster-bot, remember that these are a result of the Allspark giving life (and 'bot modes) to technology that was not meant for it, and is by Cybertronian standards really quite primative. This results in ferrel wild things, not affililliated with either Autobot or Decepticon, but are just...wild.
     
  5. Sso02V

    Sso02V Injector Has a Posse

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    I'd have to imagine that the Deception hatchlings were bred to be an army, not an actual continuation of the cybertronian race. Probably devoid of free will, or even the mental faculties to make a choice between the two sides.
     
  6. DarthCrusher

    DarthCrusher Well-Known Member

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    EXACTLY! Why don't more people understand that hostility does not equal Decepticon?
     
  7. Sso02V

    Sso02V Injector Has a Posse

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    I think that Decepticon symbols may be a better indicator of Decepticon status, and some of the Appliancebots have them.
     
  8. Kaymac

    Kaymac I'M REALLY FEELIN' IT!

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    I think this too. Also, perhaps they bred all TFs like this before the "schism"? It may seem a bit grotesque for the Autobots, but what if Optimus Prime hatched from a pod! Of course he wouldn't have been as ugly as those little hatchlings in the Nemesis though. :lol 
     
  9. Anguirus

    Anguirus Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure we are getting at the answer that RotF seems to present.

    Consider:

    The Autobots cannot read Cybertronian: it is "older than them." Not all of the Decepticons read it, but they appear to speak it. Optimus Prime, a reasonably knowledgeable Autobot, has not the slightest idea who the Fallen is, while Wheelie, a "repurposed scrap drone," on the Decepticons' side, appears to be about two steps on the chain of command away from the Fallen (Wheelie-->Soundwave-->Fallen), and has in-depth knowledge on the locations and IDENTITIES of Seekers! The Autobots, it again must be emphasized, appear to have no info about the Seekers on Earth in their hard drives.

    It appears that Decepticons are on the whole an "older" faction and generally more knowledgeable. The Autobots have almost no knowledge of the history of their species that they didn't download directly from the Cube, and their intel division sucks...they don't know who the first Decepticon, who is STILL the one giving the marching orders, is!

    Also, while this is likely to change in TF3, at the moment there does appear to be differences between the Autobots and the Decepticons in terms of form. Apart from cosmetic differences (which are significant), Decepticons have a much wider range of size and alt modes, whereas all Autobots are wheeled vehicles intermediate in size between truck and motorcycle. Hearkens back to season 1 of the cartoon really.

    I'm not familiar with the IDW comics, but going by the movie, it seems clear that Decepticons can change sides to the Autobots (and that the Autobot faction, but possibly not the symbol, dates back to the time of Jetfire and the Fallen despite Optimus being clueless and thinking Megatron founded the 'cons) but they remain "genetically" Decepticons. Wheelie must also be the first "modern" defector to the Autobots or else they would be a lot more knowledgeable.

    And as long as we're on this topic, the IDW/TFWiki take on the Seekers is somewhat at odds with the presentation in the film. The only reason for there to be a dozen-odd Seekers on Earth is because they are all looking for the Matrix of Leadership...NOT spread out to who knows where looking for "more suns." (It's implied that Jetfire has never met a Prime aside from the Fallen and OP at the end of his life, by his case of hero-worship. This is odd because of his great personal power...you'd think the Fallen would have used him as a blunt instrument,but perhaps he was too unreliable.) Maybe I've misinterpreted this and it makes more sense in the actual comics, but going by the movie it seems like:

    1. Fallen founds the Decepticons to oppose the Primes
    2. The new factions, Decepticons and Primes/Autobots, fight on Earth.
    3. The Primes all die, but hide the Matrix. At some point, they preserve a clue to its location in the Allspark.
    4. The Fallen, nursing a grudge, sends his Seekers (all Decepticons, presumably) to search for the Matrix on Earth. They suck at it, and eventually all power down in their alt modes to conserve energon. But not before Jetfire changes sides and is at least peripherally involved in a "robot civil war" between Autobots and Decepticons. Seeker vs Seeker, perhaps.
    5. Time goes by. The Fallen travels back to Cybertron and inspires Megatron. Megatron and his Decepticon army "betray" the Cybertronians (Autobots) and disseminate knowledge of the Fallen and Ancient Cybertronian among themselves. Meanwhile, OP is a descendant of the Primes but doesn't have their knowledge, nor does he think to check the Allspark for any before he shoots it off into space. Perhaps the Fallen directed Megatron to get the Allspark in order to find the Matrix? (Not that it's not worth having for its own sake.)
    6. Both factions hunt for the Allspark. One presumes it's more than chance that it winds up on the planet where the Matrix lies. Cue the movies to happen.
     
  10. DarthCrusher

    DarthCrusher Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's an error on the part of the filmmakers, then.
     
  11. MenasorMaster

    MenasorMaster Stunticon Warrior

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    Hatchlings may have a free will, when Protoforms grow up with other Decepticons, they are most likely Decepticons when adult.

    And dont forget, almost all the technical equipment were made with Megatron's technology, so AllSpark mutants are inherently Decepticons
     
  12. DecepticonSpike

    DecepticonSpike Kimber/Stormer Fanboy

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    Kinda like the Decepticlones from the Armada game?
     
  13. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    Some Decepitcons were/are kept in line out of fear of Megatron.
     
  14. Latias Prime

    Latias Prime I'm only slightly crazy!

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    I agree with you. They would just be mindless drones, devoid of emotion, higer mental capacity, and the ability to make complex choices, like the decision between Bots and Cons. They could make simple choices like "Should I blast this one or this one", but anything larger then that, forget it.

    (Imagines a baby Optimus curled up in his bed)
    :jawdropper: 
    AWWWWW, LOOK AT DA WIDDLE BABY!!!
    Now I know what my next art project will be!
     
  15. ryan.j

    ryan.j Well-Known Member

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    woot! softimus prime is canon! \o/

    [​IMG]
    cuddly ickle optimus, ready to curl up in bed.
     
  16. tfan123

    tfan123 Well-Known Member

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    Well, the way i see it:
    When The Fallen started the war, there were three groups: 1.) the followers of The Fallen 2.) The followers of the Primes and 3.) ones who dont care for the war
     
  17. garinhash

    garinhash Well-Known Member

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    its just like Jetfire says, being on the side of Autobot or Decepticon is a personnel choice.

    have you ever watched Beast Wars? even though Silverbolt was found first by the Predicons (who told him he was a pred), he didn't like being a pred.
    Dinobot switched sides his last time because he thought the Maximals would eventually win the beast wars.

    why you prefer hamburgers over hotdogs, or why you decide to buy the blue car instead of the red car, why you prefer Star Trek over Star Wars, why you get coffee with or without cream, ect....

    just like every decision anyone makes on a daily basis.
     
  18. Dran0n

    Dran0n Junk male

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    This and that.
     
  19. ryan.j

    ryan.j Well-Known Member

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    Mental health issues or abused by an ewok. There is no other acceptable excuse.
     
  20. Ra88

    Ra88 Dutchman!

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    Then why does one have the Decepticon symbol on his head?

    [​IMG]
     

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