How about if back in 1987, Rebirth was never created but they dubbed the Headmasters series using the voices and music from Rebirth, adopting the Japanese explanations for the head/targetmasters (i.e. doing away with Nebulos completely).

Would that have been better?

 

Yes, Definitely.

 

I feel it would even though I've only seen the first 12 or so episodes of the Japanese Headmasters series. I love the first four episodes and think that they are generally fabulous, the only catch is that they are a bit darker and a bit more adult than the US Transformers cartoons are. They have flaws too, but I still find them very entertaining. My favorite scene is early on when Fort Max attacks the Decepticon Combiners and you get a real good impression on just how big Fort Max really is. I also like how they stretch out Scorponok's story, make him mysterious and don't give away to much early on. Through the episodes I've watched I've only seen him lurking in the shadows, manipulating the story. Its a great way to introduce the main villian for the show.
Its also great to see Jazz, Hound, Sideswipe etc..........characters forgotten in the rush to sell a new toy line in North America.

The US Headmasters has some charm as well but the main thing I don't like about it is how the Nebulons seem to be so much more powerful than the Transformers. Like six evil Nebulons threaten eight Decepticons and the Decepticons cave.
I do like how they used Arcee, Daniel and Spike better in the US version. Arcee is just a helpless chick in the japanese episodes I've seen thus far, far different from the kickass Transformer I'd like her to be.
Maybe if the US did a full season I'd feel differently but I think you really cant compare the two. 32 episodes with a full story arc(so I've heard) is just sooooo much better than 3 rushed shows..........................

 

If only for the expanded storyline and breathtaking carnage, yes.
I wasn't too impressed with Headmasters (although the first dozen episodes do encompass an awful lot of changes).

 

I'd have preferred it on the one hand, since some elements are handled better, like the origins of the Headmasters, but other elements aren't handled so well. Cyclonus and Scourge are jokes, worse than anything from their US portrayals. Sixshot's change of heart is way too sudden. Some of the deaths are senseless, needless, and make no sense (I'm looking at you, Galvatron). Plus there is the handling of the human cast and Arcee.

Honestly, if I had a choice, I'd have said let them make a proper season 4 and it would have easily rivaled or even surpassed Headmasters in terms of quality and fun.

 

I wish the entire Headmasters series had been written differently. Lessen the role of Wheelie for starters.   Optimus Prime (Convoy) shouldn't have been re-killed either. Anyway, taking the green Nebulans out of the story would have been great too.

 

No to Nebulans

The japanese version was better bec. of the absence of Nebulans. Those scenes where the Transformers removed their heads for the Nebulans were really weird. The japanese version also had better continuity with the 1986 series. Many of the 1986 characters continued to have large roles in the japanese 1987 headmasters.

Transformers with aliens or humans inside is just not Transfomers and is more like the super robot trend started by Mazinger Z. For me, what makes Transfomers different is that they are aliens and not just brainless tools of aliens or humans.

The japanese headmasters could've been improved if the robot bodies were giants so that the head robots can be normal sized Transformers rather than dwarfs. The japanese masterforce of 1988 could've been consistent with the 1987 headmasters and avoided the use of human pilots. Transformers as the brainless tools of humans is just not interesting and is just the same as the a dime a dozen super robots.

 

I don't think it would have worked out. Hasbro went to all the trouble of raising Prime. Then Takara goes and turns him into Osiris. (raised from the dead only to end up dying again anyway) Plus the fact that the movie hadn't made it to Japan yet mean't that quite a few characters from seasons 1 and 2 were still around in Headmasters. Despite quite clearly getting killed in the movie (Prowl and Wheeljack for example) and whose deaths were reenforced by being in the Autobot tomb ship. It would have been a bit too confusing. Plus the Japanese level of sexism and violence could have been a problem too.

 

Yes. Despite its faults, I would have loved to see Headmasters dubbed with the G1 Voice actors.

 

Personally, both series had good things and both had some horrid things.

Headmasters is great in the fact that it takes away the Nebulons (a stupid concept that I've always hated) and gives us the little robots that become the larger robots heads. I also like the way that Scorponok and Fortress Maximus are handled better in that series. Also, the use of some of the non-dead Transformers getting more screen time was great as well. However, I don't like the way they handled Arcee... Galvatron's death was pointless and Scourge & Cyclonus have become stellar jokes in this series (worse than their portrayals in Rebirth if you ask me)... destroying Cybertron was the worst move they've ever made in a Transformers story and was done purely as an excuse to get rid of Rodimus Prime so they could have Fortress Maximus be the leader of the Autobots without having to pass the Matrix a second time in the series... which bring me to what they did to Optimus Prime, resurrecting him just to kill him off again was stupid and the whole re-energising the Matrix nonsense was ridiculous in my opinion as well... also, the way the humans and Arcee were handled in Headmasters sucked in my opinion too... Six Shot's change of heart because he encounters a 'Kenny' made me twitch and reminded me of why I stopped watching stuff like Gamera... Wheelie's huge role made me want to shoot myself in the head... and, finally, the massive inconsistencies brought about by having characters who'd obviously been dead sense the movie (supported by the episode with the Autobot Tomb in space) running around doing stuff was just bad.

Rebirth, was good in the way it really showed the Autobots being on the brink towards the end of the series. I like the way they used Arcee better in the series and, while I don't like the fact that Daniel and Spike became headmasters, I do like the fact that they had better roles IMPO. Also, I like the way Hot Rod was shown to be acting as a leader without having to be injected with Matrix steroids to be Rodimus Prime while the group was on Nebulous. Galvatron's attempt to destroy Cybertron was excellent as well and it's good that he ultimately fails... which brings me to the best thing about Rebirth... the second Golden Age of Cybertron. Think about it... Transformers continuing in a second Golden Age would be awesome... better than destroying the freakin' planet. On the other hand, the Nebulons as their heads (and Daniel and Spike for that matter) was just silly IMO and I didn't like the way all the hardcore Decepticons caved after being threatened by the 'Hive'. Scorponok and Fortress Maximus having so little screen time was also kind bleh and Cerebros basically is a whiny emo bitch who wants to commit suicide before emo was cool with kids (seriously, while Fortress doesn't really like to fight he doesn't get emo and want to kill himself over it). Six Shot doesn't get nearly enough screen time and many of the older characters seem to be forgotten about except the 87 cast that goes to Nebulous, Prime, Magnus, the Aerialbots & the Protectobots (and Magnus, the Aerialbots and Protectobots get taken out like chumps). Seriously, where in the hell where the Dinobots while all this was going on?!! I would have killed to see the Dinobots go toe to toe with Six Shot, the supposed ultimate Decepticon weapon. But at least Wheelie didn't have a large role in Rebirth. YAY!

Personally, I think that if you were to incorporate the best of both shows you'd have a pretty awesome show. However, it's not really fair to judge Rebirth (three episodes total) against Headmasters (an entire season of plot lines). They're both very different from each other while having only minuet key elements being similar. Personally, I think if Hasbro had went an entire season after Rebirth you'd have not only had the introductions in Rebirth be so drawn out, but you'd also have a series that would potentially rival Headmasters.

 

I totally need to watch the Headmasters dub.

 

Well the big problem with rebirth, and the guy who wrote it said this on one of the season 4 extra features, is that you had introduce some 30 characters in the span of 3 episodes. That is rebirths biggest failing in that noone gets any proper character development after thy're introduced ("Roger dodger Optimus!").

I guess I'm the only one who is fine with the whole "headmasters and targetmasters are human/nebulan" idea. That's how it was presented in the show and in the marvel comics. I guess it just seemed natural to me since both mediums I paid attention to gave the same explanation for some my favorite toys. Plus the idea made for some good writing in the final issues of Transformers and the Transformers/GI JOE lead-in to G2.

I would've preferred a full season 4 to a headmaster dub personally.

 

Yes, since Rebirth is horrible. I understand the limitations the writer had and I've softened to Rebirth after watching the interview on the DVD set, but still....man it sucked.

 

That's a big, "No shit Sherlock!"  

I didn't have a problem with it till I heard about how Takara portrayed it in "The Headmasters." I don't have a problem with the targetmasters being organic humanoids. But Headmasters being little bots that combine with a vehicles, becoming it's head, is all kinds of awesome.

 

Yes and it worked quite well with Brainmasters in Transforemers Victory!  

 

  That was hilarious.

 

I hope that you still got a chance to watch the Gamera trilogy from the 90s. Very little in common with the Showa series, and probably some of the single most important films in kaiju eiga!

Heh, but I digress. I think I prefer the origin of the Headmasters as being robots with much larger and interchangeable suits, but then the Headmasters series has several of the conventions of Japanese series that I don't think would work well as an extension of the G1 series in the US. Though I believe Headmasters has some more enjoyable moments than Rebirth, like the Soundwave/Blaster fight, that's due in part to the much larger number of episodes, so it has a bit of an unfair advantage. I really find it difficult to choose one over the other.

 

Actually I did and it's much better than the original Gamera.

That's right, totally forgot about the Blaster Vs. Soundwave fight, but that's probably because I always thought that it was done just so Takara could repaint them into Soundblaster and Twin Cast... still one hell of a fight though!

 

I hated the headmasters series, I hated rebirth, both were terrible and we'd be better off without them.

 

Good man. But of course, now boiling melted-face Gyaos is going to haunt my nightmares.

That's another way of putting it, I guess... But then it's so easy to condemn and wish to scrap G1 continuity entirely. Little wonder that it's the series most closely imitated (yet with such variety) when a new series is done, like Armada or any post-Marvel comics or Classics or even Animated. Of course that also has a lot to do with G1 being the first and the nostalgia factor, but still.