Thank you. I wanted to say this, but I don't have the "subtle" gene in my DNA and would not have worded it in a way that wouldn't start a flame war. I seem to be incapable of responding to these threads without getting angry lately.

 

PSP makes some good points, $70 for a KO seems high to me. I admit i jumped at some of the big lots sets for $6. I'd totally pay $20 or even $30 for a decent quality KO of something I really want, but I'd be buying it just to open it up and display it. That said Ebay aint that grand and I don't think I'd find a Grimlock in good shape/complete for even close to fifty bucks. Maybe some of the others but not the "KING".

 

i cant believe someone just called draven subtle XD hes about as subtle as mallet on watermelon.

and just to add to the topic, i dont see a big deal abt including the authentic looking KOs with the originals. in a sense, even the reissues are mere reproduction and shouldnt rank with vintages, if youre gonna be pedantic abt it.

 

Hope Matt doens't mind, just seemed to fit the situation.

 

Draven, I'm happy that you want to spend your money on these. Heck, I want to buy them too. But only because I WANT to open them, whereas the packaging becomes almost irrelevant.

I just WON"T stoop to buying them at the high prices when they are some greedy guy's copies. That's just lining his pockets for a replica. Or some scalper's. Buying them at those higher prices justifies them as authentic, when they they are only substitutes.

We know what we all want..... the real thing. I can see wanting to spend money on these to get these substitutes. I just wish you'd help me by waiting it out for prices to drop on these.

 

if your patient enough you can find a nice one for 50$ and then buy some reprolabels.

 

what are you talking about? that makes no sense whatsoever. If your complaining that the toys weren't available, what does that have to do with anything. I bought my reissue silverstreaks/prowls from tru.com for 9.99, over paying 30$ for the takara reissue and i was fine with them. All the reissues were on discount on the website for months. I also picked up Hoist, dirge, red alert for 5$ at the store b/c they had been sitting there shelfwarming for months, and finally hit green tag clearance.

Yes prime, hotrod were all in stores and at one point online. They were more popular characters and sold quicker and without discount, but they were all available. Its not like you had to camp out at the store, or stay up until 6 am to get one online.

And having no TRU in the area is not hasbro's fault so what does that have to do with anything, I'm so sick fans complaining and blaming every little thing on hasbro. Tru was operating through amazon.com and offered free shipping on anything over 25$ on amazon supersaver. That plus the discount made it much cheaper to buy online vs the store.

All the tru reissues have passed through the stores and online. You either passed on them, or didn't know the reissues existed back then, neither are hasbro's fault. Its like the classics Starscreams, they were everywhere in stores, alota people passed on them, then when they were gone, everyone complains about how they can't find one.

 

Yeah, right. Try living in almost any other country on Earth besides the US. That'll shut you up about "You didn't bother getting them" quicksmart.
Kenucme: I do intend to wait. I don't agree with the prices either. However I don't buy into all the "You can get a mint original for the same price" stuff. I like to be able to display my TFs in nice boxes, even though I open them; the odds of finding a mint G1 Sunstreaker for the price of the KO is incredibly slim.

 

Perhaps, but there's no way you're going to find one in mint condition with unapplied stickers for $50, which is what you get with the KO, not to mention the nice box.

There's a big difference between "mint" and "good condition".

 

I don't know, it was pretty cut and dry if you ask me. Takara's reissue were $30 and Hasbro's reissues were $30. That means their cost to the customer was equivalent. Additionally, Takara did almost all of their versions first (years earlier if we want to count eHobby reissues of the series 2 cars). Please, do tell how price and availability have nothing to do with anything.

Ah, so you're one of those people that helps kill lines by waiting for everything to go on clearance before you bother to pick up a couple. As someone who bought at least two full-priced copies of almost every release as soon as they were out (and then some more when they hit clearance), let me extend my middle finger in thanks. How dare anyone insinuate that buying these reproductions means I don't put in a reasonable amount of effort or care about the brand.

Tell me you don't actually believe that? Prime and Magnus were never available in this area that I could tell and were constantly sold out online. You know how I know? I preordered a couple Hotrods months before their street date and I checked every day until they arrived several months later. As bad as it is/was here, I can't even imagine what the British fans go/went through.

Edit: Now's as good a time as any.

 

I don't normally support KOs but if they're quality is as good as the original...why not? After all Hasbro and TakaraTomy don't have the original molds.

 

Good call. Why is it ok for Hasbro to reproduce some of these figures but NOT ok for other companies to reproduce those that Hasbro seemingly has no intention of reproducing? What is the difference between these Dinobots (Mirage, Wheeljack, etc.) or the TRU re-issues? It's not as the 3rd party producers are taking money from Hasbro in these cases by making the same product as Hasbro.

 

I just find this interesting considering the conversation was, at one point, about unofficial product being passed off as mint original product...theoretically if one is concerned about their toy being "original and authentic" isn't a set of reprolabels theoretically just as shady? you aren't getting 100% authentic, vintage Hasbro product...

Mind you I fully support Reprolabels and have done quite a bit of business with them, but in all honesty I also support the unofficial versions if it's a piece I can't get by other means...

 

I guess I should get in on this topic ... again.

I know everyone is calling these KO's, but I wish they wouldn't. This is why they are affecting everyone negatively. The term KO has a negative connotation. As though you are buying an inferior product or quality is really bad or its illegal. These KO's as everyone is calling them are in a class all there own. Maybe we should call them SAKO's as in SUPER AWESOME KNOCK OFFS. Or how about HQKO's as in HIGH QUALITY KNOCK OFFS. Or better yet, BTOKO's as in BETTER THAN ORIGINAL KNOCK OFFS. At least the Mirage one was.

But maybe the term KNOCK OFF (KO) should be replaced all together. Since, in all truth, REISSUES in principle are KNOCK OFF's of their originally released selves. Aren't they? Especially when parts/weapons are changed (Hasbro reissues) or parts are completely remolded/reversed engineered (Soundwave/blaster reissue).

Oh well, I guess I think I am just going to call them unofficial reissues since thats really truly what they are. They are exactly duplicates of the orginals, and better quality which in my mind is a true reissue. A KNOCK OFF is what HASBRO gave us with the commerative series in my opinion. They changed things (packaging, parts, molds) and change is always bad if you are going to call something a reissue.

The kicker is they denied us the figures fans want the most. Namely the Dinobots, Wheeljack and Mirage. Of course it was only time before a fan group reproduced these. They may not be official products from Hasbro or Takara, but they are Reissues and they are better reissues than anything Hasbro or Takara has ever released. Those who say otherwise have not bought or seen the Mirage reissue. It is a reissue NOT a KO and worth every penny they charge.

 

Knock-offs killed my father, and raped my mother!

Rabble rabble rabble

 

I'd like these high quality KOs more if they were KO prices.

I can't really justify spending so much on a toy that would be about a third of the price, were it a genuine mass-release hasbro product.

In my eyes KOs should be /3 not *3 the price.

I have no interest in buying MISB G1 originals, that's too much money for me, I buy loose (usually pretty knackered) and do 'em up a bit, I buy reissues when I can find them, and I'd buy these KOs if they were cheaper.

I'm happy people want to buy them, I'd be happier if I could afford   but I'm annoyed that there's so much opposition to them.

The only position I can imagine these products having a negative impact is a purely financial one. And I can't understand collecting toys from a financial position, I have to pretend to myself I haven't spent the huge amount that I have on these toys, and I don't even have any rare or desirable pieces at all....

OK, nuff rambling

 

It is all about the price. A G1 reissue car is not worth $70, I don't care who the hell makes it. If the Hasbro reissues were $70 a pop, I would have passed on all of them. Would anyone here have payed $70 for the Takara Hound reissue when it first came out? Probably not. If I could get the KO for half of the price ($35-$45), I would be all over them.

 

I think the people I am the most angry at are Hasbro for letting this continue for so long. This has been going on for 2 years now and they've done nothing to stop it. They apparently don't even care that this is going on. What the hell?

 

I think KO's are perfectly fine for people needing a quick fix, whether it's just for nostalgia or to fill gaps in their collection. Save for the WST Dinobots, I've never bought a KO myself since I vastly prefer *official* releases.

But that said, I have most certainly considered buying KO's for the very reasons I mentioned above. For example, I like the idea of one day displaying the original G1 versions of Season 1/2 Autobot characters side by side their updated Alternator counterparts, but there's no way I can afford to track down all the original official versions and expect them to be in near mint condition. This is exactly where KO's could come in handy, especially since I wouldn't be leaving them MISB.

Add to that, take G1 Wheeljack for example. He has never been officially re-released, so the upcoming KO version is about the only option for anyone who wants the figure in new condition. Same thing applies to the Dinobots & Shockwave - all characters in VERY high demand amongst fans & collectors, but they're nowhere to be found through official Hasbro or Takara channels. It's basic supply & demand, so people will go where they have to in order to get what they need, right or wrong.

While it's cool that Hasbro & Takara have re-released a few G1 characters over the years, they seriously need to realize that TF do not start & stop with just Prime, Megatron, Starscream & Soundwave being released over and over and over and over again. Yeah I realize they've released more than just those characters, but not in even half the quantity or repetition as those four usual suspects.

And as the constant string of KO's prove, Hasbro and/or Takara could indeed release many of the characters they claim to have lost the original molds to if they really wanted to. If a few guys hiding in China can reverse engineer this stuff, Hasbro/Takara certainly could (have) as well.

As I personally see it anyway  

 

Drop that "we all" stuff and you might be getting somewhere, as people get kinda snippy when someone tries to speak for everyone. I know more than a few people who enthusiastically buy knockoff toys of stupendously lower quality than the ones dicussed here, for varying reasons, so I wouldn't go presuming the rationale for buying these.

The way I see it, They are 'substitues', but who cares, as long as the buy er knows it? I don't think buying them or the price makes them any more authentic or real than the originals. All it means is that several people are willing to pay the price for a worthwhile substitute.

The "greedy guy" element is the only problem I have with these. While there are differences, and even improvements, it's hard to deny that the goal is still to make something that looks as close to a genuine vintage (though mint) G1 product as possible, leading more collectors (especially the newbies) than we'd like to admit to go "I found the 1984 toy MISB for &70! They're usually well over $100!" at the hands of unscrupulous (or ignorant) sellers.

While a lot of people have been saying that if these guys can reverse engineer a toy and make money off it, Hasbro or Takara could too, and sell it for less. I think were talking about two widely different scale economies here, and two completely different numbers for how many need to be sold before they are profitable enough to be worth the money and effort. I don't expect Sunstreaker or Wheeljack to NOT be a Toys R Us shelfwarmer alongside Hoist or Ricochet, for example.