Oh yeah, if they were cut, and the movie is actually entertaining to me, I'm sort of hoping for an eventual dvd with the Twins scenes back in there, for some kind of completion's sake...but I doubt that would be financially feasible. Ah well..it's not like Jolt and Arcee suddenly disappeared..oh wait. I guess it does not matter. We can all pretend Skids & Mudflap died on a mission before the movie...which still stinks becaus their scene from DOTM actually sounded like they could redeem themselves.
Until I see the movie myself, I remain skeptical of Bay/Nelson's claim. Personally, I think the movie would be better without the twins, but the fact remains: We've seen their alt modes ON set, BEING filmed. AND they match the toys. If they have been cut out of the movie, then a lot of time and money has apparently been wasted. I except the twins will be in one or two short scenes to get killed off, if nothing else. Now I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but until I see the film, I'm taking everything Michael Bay and Nelson say with a grain of salt. /rant.
"We're" as in "We are"? Like most people I think the twins were cut because of the negative backlash from DOTM. I myself didn't think it was a big deal. From what I saw, I found it funny that the people that was calling racist was all white people. Most minorities didn't care at all. EDIT: I will reserve the twins being cut after myself or others actually watch the final cut of the movie.
I believe they are in. If they arent, i will be so disapointed in Bay. The scene they are in, in the DOTM novel, was truely touching. Bay would go down as redeeming two of the most controversial characters. Not even george lucas could redeem jar jar binks
They were cut because they were "the most racially offensive characters since blackface minstrels" due to the fact that they talked "street." Because we all know that only black people talk street. If anyone else does it, they're not just talking in a particular modern urban dialect, they're doing it to insult black people. The exception is characters from, say, Disney cartoons who are animals or other anthropomorphosized objects who talk "street" because they're just being "hip" and "current" and connecting with urban viewers.
I still think they're in the movie, and that Bay and Nelson are just BSing everybody. Though if they do turn out to not be in the movie, than I would have to say that they were cut because of the outrage over them being "hatefully racial stereotypes" in RotF (which they weren't, but people severely overeacted to them, and if anything, they were "wiggers"). Seriously, if Bay actually wanted to cut them from the movie, that decision should have been made in preproduction. One of the reason's I'm not a fan of him, is that he'll randomly change major details at the last second for no reason. Make a decision and stick with it.
I think the whole controversy was that the twins were projections of (most likely white) designers and Hollywood execs who thought this is what black people act like (you know, for shits and giggles). Totally effen unnecessary when we're talking about a species of intergalactic transforming robots. I don't mind their brother/sibling angle, or how they're street tough, but they were straight up obnoxious caricatures that played up racist stereotypes to get a laugh out of the audience. And to those who are actually defending the Twins and can't wrap their minds around the possibility that Hollywood can be racist, you need to get a clue and watch such stunning gems like Birth of a Nation, Breakfast At Tiffany's (the unedited version), and the whitewashed abomination that was The Last Airbender (I think being forced to watch this movie is punishment enough). It doesn't matter that the Twins are robots because the ones who created them onscreen are HUMAN. Flawed, silly humanity in the form of graphic designers, art directors, and the producers who green lit the assinine idea of the Twins in the first place. I bring up the older movies and a few recent ones because Hollywood has had a proven track record of injecting insensitive racist tripe into the media. If the Twins are truly gone from DOTM, I say good riddance.
Because everybody in the entire fucking world wanted them gone. And now, with a month until it's out, people want them back. Well tough.
For a while, I thought so too; but then the AICN review said they were gone, and then Paramount Studios contacted TFW2005 explicitly to say the twins were gone. It's because of those two that I'm leaning towards them being gone. Except for the fact that Mudflap was voiced by a black guy who says his performance was essentially inspired by K-Fed...
Gotta love the "You're racist for thinking the twins were racist" argument. Then again, I suppose that argument makes perfect sense to the sort of people who enjoyed RotF.
Exactly. This type of warped logic just blows my mind. So what this argument is saying is, "I take offense at your offense, because my enjoyment of these racist caricatures and stereotypes is more important than the fact your feelings were hurt by said caricatures/stereotypes." The fact that he was voiced by a black guy does not in any way invalidate the offense that people, myself included, took to these throwaway characters. That argument is like saying, "Hey, I have a black friend and he says it's cool." No, dude, said friend does not speak for the rest of the people who took offense.
Because nobody wanna hear " OMG it's racist ! Why do black characters always get killed so fast in the film?" Its the same shit saying " OMG you use the white guy to kill black zomebies in Africa !" and that's how people bash Resident Evil 5.
For all the people/organizations who complained about the twins, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP wasn't one of them. What does that say? Also, methinks you didn't read the second half of my previous post...
Except when it comes to the color green. When reviews start hurting a movie's bottom line, then the film's producers take notice. Take the Red Dawn remake. The producers got antsy when they made China the bad guy. Suddenly, China balked at being painted as the bad guy and the producers were threatened by the huge loss of a possible (and valuable) market share. So what did they do? Redubbed all the villains' Chinese dialogue into Korean, digitally replaced the Chinese flag with a North Korean one (ditto with soldier's uniform insignia), and there you go. Now I realize that a movie's critical reviews sometimes has no bearing on its financial success. Such was the case with ROTF, and The Last Airbender (otherwise, neither of these films would be getting sequels green lit). But that's Hollywood for you. I'm fairly certain the (still unconfirmed) decision to cut the Twins from DOTM was a financial one, not a moral one. What does that say about Hollywood and us as consumers who eat their stuff up without batting an eye or raising a question as to what we're fed? Do I really need to explain that Jesse Jackson (and the NAACP) does not speak for all black people? And no, I didn't miss the second half of your previous post. I merely thought it had zero bearing on the general public's view of the Twins' portrayal on screen because, seriously, how is the average movie goer going to know that that guy was just channeling K-Fed, and not just that the Twins are, "talking black, hey, that's funny."
Hollywood is racist and many black actors will tell you that (i.e. Dave Chappelle) but I think they were cut for a deeper reason... ...they were !@#$%^ ANNOYING! In G1, Jazz, Warpath, and Blaster were obviously black folks, some might say cheesy and/or stereotypical ones too. But the fact is, they were fun characters and added flavor to the dull Autobots. They didn't say things like "pop a cap" and "b*tch-a$$" in front of kids. I don't recall them ever jabbering at each other, fighting among themselves, or being illiterate either (good one, Bay, very subtle) Racist? yea...more than Jar-Jar, even. But even if they weren't, I doubt Bay would be able to produce a decent comic relief of any nationality. Let's hope he abandons the comedy... Also, am I the only one that sees a resemblance to Martin Lawrence and Will Smiths faces in the twins? Michael Bay did "Bad Boys" 1 and 2 after all and he wants to do a third one, could this be him paying homage to himself?
So are black people who talk street racist for perpetuating a negative stereotype? Face it, people in urban areas, black people AND white people, talk street. Do SOME black people who talk street mean ALL black people talk street? NO. Just because the Twins spoke a dialect spoken by SOME black people does not mean they represent ALL black people. Or white people who talk street. Tow Mater in "Cars" speaks redneck. Does that make him a racist caricature? NO, because there are, in fact, people who talk like that. Comparing the Twins to "Birth of a Nation" is the most asinine thing in this thread; to say that characters who speak a dialect that does exist and is often considered "hip" and "cool" is as offensive as the Ku Klux Klan is one of the most absurd things I've ever read. Sure, Hollywood is capable of using stereotypes, but confirmation bias tends to lead to people finding "atrocious racism" where it doesn't really exist. Example: I wrote a screenplay that included a black SWAT officer. My professor accused me of "blatant racism" because in one scene, the officer says to his team leader, "What now, boss?" Apparently, slaves called slave drivers "Boss". I was reprimanded in front of my class because apparently, having black characters refer to white ones as "boss" in any context is racist.
You still have no way of explaining how the twins are actually racist except for talking gangsta wannabe which a god shit ton of white boys do too. Nothing in the movie makes them black characters. You all equate them talking with the "Yo, wassup" lingo with being black. Not real.
Reread my previous posts. I said that the Twins were harmful in that that they're a representation of what non-blacks think what all black people act and sound like, thus reaffirming their bias and stereotypes about them. But it all comes down to one question, doesn't it? Why did the Twins have to talk "street" at all in the first place? They're alien robots from outer space, for cripes' sake! The answer is comedy relief, and let's face it, to clown on another race is good jollies for some people. Oversensitive? Maybe, but you know what, the media is a powerful tool in forming and reaffirming our stereotypes about others, in spite of the whole "kernel of truth" excuse folks like to use to confirm their own bias. And when I brought up Birth of a Nation, I used it ONLY as an example that racism in Hollywood is a very long and storied tradition from the beginning, not something that just popped up overnight in recent films. There are definitely varying shades of racism in Hollywood, from the tamest like the Twins to full on hatred like BoaN. When did I ever say the two were one and the same? And your professor sounds like a douche but I still stand by stance that the Twins did more harm than good to the TF franchise, and the movies would be better for their absence.
