Why Transformers Film Franchise can't be like Marvel's MCU?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by deathzero23, May 11, 2017.

  1. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Except that's not true TF characters aren't Iron Man or CA or Hulk, Thor and BW. This idea that most TF characters have all this development potential isn't true, neither the G1 show or comics gave the movies a lot to work with. Yes the comics had some more layered characters but guess what they were always the main characters of that story. Blaster faded into obscurity after Grimlock's reign, Ratchet faded into the background until Megatron returned. Prowl wasn't even notable until the final stretches. Fortress Maximus pretty much disappears until the end. The Marvel comics only focused on a select few Autobots optimus, Grimlock were the equivalent of optimus and Bumblebee. Blaster, Ratchet, Fortress Maximum and prowl got their moments but many of those were limited.

    BW didn't tell better stories than the movies. The discovery of the ark amounted to the maximals becoming body guards that's it. Why did the tripodius council seek to destroy the ark, what was their endgame, how did they know the vok, why did they fear them. Tarantulas mission was why they were on Earth, and we never found out why. The purpose of the vok was never revealed. I get BW was cancelled but maybe if they spend more time building the mythology and less time on foiling whatever scheme Megatron has we could've reached the big reveal. The tripodius council descended from the cybertronian empire and the vok was a remnant of the swarm. We never even reach the main conflict we do zero world building and we don't delve into the mythology at all, the only story we get is maximals vs Predacons, stop Megatron, Status quo.

    Seriously BW didn't do anything with any of it's plot points, the big ark discovery gave the maximals a new base to protect. The Vok gave them new bodies. The idea of Megatron using the golden disk to look into the future, used for one episode then it's destroyed. With the movies the narrative is moving forward it's not just Autobots vs Decepticons. The movies are at least telling different stories, the dynasty, the creators, humans hunting the Autobots, sentinel's betrayal. They're telling more than the typical TFS status quo and these events have impact beyond a new base or paint job which is more than I can say for BW.
     
  2. TUROK1134

    TUROK1134 Well-Known Member

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    It absolutely is a continuity error, though, because the movie sets up the Bifrost Bridge being broken as a major plot point. Hell, the movie's ending is contingent on it being a problem for Thor and Jane's relationship. But then it gets hand waved away and it never ended up being an issue.

    A throwaway mention in a comic doesn't make up for the fact that the ending in Thor 1 is made absolutely meaningless by the subsequent movies.

    All of these examples throw a giant wrench into the narrative that Marvel has all these things planned out already. It's pretty obvious that they're making it up as they go along, and that these storylines they claim to already have mapped out are a bunch of loose ideas at best.
     
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  3. unicronic

    unicronic TFW2005 Supporter

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    To be fair the MCU schooled just about movie franchise property on how to do things.

    I don't expect TF to be like Marvel but it doesn't deserve to be as poor as it has been.
     
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  4. NotRamjet97

    NotRamjet97 Hollo!

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    Like interesting villains, diversity, and strong female characters? (Not saying TF's really great at that either, but the MCU's flaws are becoming far too apparent.)
     
  5. NotRamjet97

    NotRamjet97 Hollo!

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    C'mon, man. No need to stoop to his level. Just report his name calling crud and put him on your ignore list. It's a beautiful feature.
     
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  6. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    Actually, IIRC when Thor shows up in Avengers and just takes off with Loki, one of the latter's first lines in their exchange refers to Odin having to gather a shitton of bifrost (or something) to specifically allow Thor to get to Earth.

    Then later, Thor 2 outright has Loki show that bifrost isn't even needed to at least leave Asgard. So it really isn't a continuity error, only in so far as outlining how to get from Magic Viking Land to Earth - the Bifrost Bridge only made it significantly easier but wasn't exclusively the only way.

    Then you are a fool. The Golden Disk could have imploded the minute after BW Megatron saw the G1 Megatron recording on it. The entire point of the disc was in fact merely one Megatron telling another to go back in time and kill Optimus Prime in his sleep. The only other time it ever even had relevance was much later on when Ravage showed up and seeing G1 Megatron a.k.a. his old boss be the brains behind the whole time travel murder plot, switch sides to be a baddie again.

    Megatron got what he wanted the minute he got the disk before he ever left Cybertron.

    What makes the Vok different from The Creators? Given the Vok created Tigerhawk who was pretty much a demigod, they've done more than the dumb Creators so far.

    You clearly haven't seen GOTG2 yet, then.

    Seriously, it's got all three of those things.
     
  7. 96megatron

    96megatron Well-Known Member

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    I always thought the reason the Decepticons couldn't find the Allspark was because of the Technology at the time was too primitive to do research and I don't think Soundwave's pets(Gould's Company) had connections with Sector Seven. As well as Simmons being a lower level Sector Seven Agent so he probably didn't have much proof on his theories.
    Dark of the Moon Megatron's Human Slave Labor Idea might have been inspired by The Fallen talks of that wretched planet and it's species.
    And I'm wondering if the Decepticons were even looking for Megatron on Earth since Starscream was in command hell he might've assisted in some of the Wars when he arrived on Earth just for Sh*ts and Giggles. Saying "Decepticons play along this is *Snickering* important research for the Decepticon Cause". The last part is a joke.
     
  8. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    Soundwave pretty much had access to NASA during the highest point of the Space Race, meaning that shit was the most top secret and classified stuff going on during the 60s.

    Blackout didn't even break a sweat simply gripping a computer server, nor Frenzy hacking Air Force One, until the connections were cut physically or dramatically (by shutting down the entire US Defense Network).

    Furthermore, Sector Seven made their jobs easy by simply putting Megatron next to the Cube. All the idiot Decepticons had to do was find their goddamn boss and it's obvious they had the means of doing so...they just didn't for no reason.

    Blackout finds information about the Ice Man and nothing about the AllSpark on his SOCCENT base raid. That kinda tells you right there what he was looking for primarily.
     
  9. Scrapmaker

    Scrapmaker Miniautoquintessoboticon

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    A continuity error would be something blatantly contradictory to a character's behavior and motivations from previous development, or otherwise a plot hole in some fashion. Odin using the Tesseract to repair the Bifrost Bridge is not contradictory information nor is it a plot hole. At worst it was a lazy copout to resolve a problem, but not a continuity error. It would be a continuity error if it was just spontaneously repaired, as if it was never destroyed at all, and never explained how it was repaired.
     
  10. unicronic

    unicronic TFW2005 Supporter

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    Villains are the bane of the MCU for sure. Even then they're more effective than any villain in TF series so far except possible Lockdown.

    They've nailed strong female characters.

    MCU has the same formula they apply to each and every movie, you can see the tick boxes getting marked one by one from start to finish of each movie.

    Transformers movies could benefit from having some kind of reliability to the structure of the movies. Age of Extinction started off quite strong but I found myself clock watching after half way through and that's been the same for all of them to be honest. They're too long and don't know how pace the movie correctly.
     
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  11. NotRamjet97

    NotRamjet97 Hollo!

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    I wouldn't say they're better. Not really. They're just...the villain. There's nothing really to them in either.

    The issue I have with Black Widow and Scarlet Witch is they're not really great characters to look up to. Black Widow's in it a bit but she doesn't do much more than Nick Fury would do. Scarlet Witch has powers, most certainly, but she caused the event that led to Civil War and was essentially "locked away" until Hawkeye swooped in. Regardless of how you feel their movies have been made, DC seems to be going in a better direction with Wonder Woman.

    ...isn't that another of the MCU's problems, though? That's essentially saying "You seen one, you've seen 'em all". Formulaic can work for a TV show, but a movie's supposed to be bigger, something to wow the audience.
     
  12. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Is that supposed to be an argument saying Megatron won the moment he got the golden disk isn't exactly disproving my theory, Dinobot's death while a good episode wasn't necessary to the narrative which is kind of my point. Nothing in BW effects the status quo and it rarely effects the characters or narrative, your argument supports my entire point.

    Whatever the vok did was ultimately irrelevant it never amounted to anything, because season 3 was a waste having the maximals play bodyguard instead of actually delving into tarantulas mission. It would be like if the creators were set up in TF 1 and we never reached their actual connection to the transformers, because the movies never moved beyond Autobots vs Decepticons. The creators haven't done much yet because they're being set up. With the Vok there is no excuse they were introduced in season 1 and a central part of the story since day one. The tripodius council was established in season 2 tarantulas was established to know the aliens as early as season 1, why we never reach that point because we can't focus on anything beyond Megatron's plan.
     
  13. unicronic

    unicronic TFW2005 Supporter

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    For all of MCU's weak villains I'm yet to see any villain in TF movies match Loki.

    MCU movies definitely have a formula but they balance it out by (generally) having good actors playing key roles which elevates it all. Even middling movies like Iron Man 2 are generally more entertaining to me than any TF movie.

    And to clarify I say this as a die-hard Transformers fan of nearly 40 years.

    But we're kind of stuck with Bay for the time being. He's a blessing and curse. Without him there would no TF movies, now with him there will be no better TF movies. So it's damned if you do and etc.

    I would like to see the TF franchise offer a movie to a new promising director and give him some reign to do what he wants.
     
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  14. 96megatron

    96megatron Well-Known Member

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    Would Megatron as Galvatron retreating at the end of Four be considered character development one of those learning your lesson. I notice Megatron's emotions tend to get the better of him and charge into things without a plan at times, but as someone who failed since coming to Earth seemed more impressive and showed growth in knowing when to retreat. While G1 Megatron's Retreating is seen as cowardly, but it is smart as the battle wasn't in his favor and he could fight another day and come again with a more effective strategy. I wonder if Megatron knows of Hound's Spitting Bullet Technique from his Mouth when he had operational control of Two Heads in the Fourth Film? Hound might try that same tactic on Megatron when he's fighting him, but having seen it before might now how to counteract it. The Last Bit is a hypothetical example unfortunately it was never clear whether the KSI Drone were sentient or controlled remotely by Galvatron which may be the reason why he needed to get clear from the battle once the Dinobots show up.
     
  15. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    And you lost.

    Seriously, you don't have standing if you are basically saying Code of Hero was a worthless episode. Absolutely nobody will agree with you.

    No. Megatron retreats at the end of ROTF.

    It should be noted that every time Megatron doesn't die, he retreats. He's 50/50 for the death-or-retreat ratio for movies we know the plot of so no, that's not character development.
     
  16. 96megatron

    96megatron Well-Known Member

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    That was on Starscream's suggestion in ROTF. In AOE it was his decision he made on his own unless he's seeing Starscream's ghost offscreen. LOL
     
  17. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    It was, an amazing episode can be irrelevant to the narrative. Does Dinobot's death effect Rattrap's arc in any way no it doesn't. Would anything about the discovery of the ark change or Blackarichia's hidden goal or anything regarding tarantulas. Does it effect anything regarding Megatron finding the nemesis. Does Dinobot's death truly effect anything not really. The story would unravel almost the exact same.

    Yes it's irrelevant the only reason you or anyone disagree is because you like it, people immediately assume I like it so it's relevant but that's not how a narrative works does it have a permanent or long term effect on the characters no, does it play any role in how the main events of the narrative unravel, if the episode didn't happen how much would the narrative change, not much. Code of a hero while great is ultimately fairly irrelevant to the main narrative regardless of how popular it is.
     
  18. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    As opposed to doing what? What other option did he possibly have that wouldn't have ended up with him dead...again?

    Hell, in the novelization of DOTM, Megatron lives by making a peace treaty with Prime.
     
  19. 96megatron

    96megatron Well-Known Member

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    It showed Megatron was making his own decisions as Leader after being a disciple under the tutelage of The Fallen. Then as an Underling under his enemy he fought against during the War.
     
  20. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    Yeah this is obviously going nowhere.
     
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