Why the prevailing assumption that KO/bootlegs are identical in quality?

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Paradigm-Shift Prime, Dec 6, 2007.

  1. Paradigm-Shift Prime

    Paradigm-Shift Prime Unit Warrior TFW2005 Supporter

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    Now in this thread here:
    http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=159066
    It was said:
    "Get the new K.O,It'll be easier,No difference just not made by Hasbro"
    And I have seen this assertion posted a fair bit by various posters.

    Now I'm not trying to pick on anyone but this is really not fair to those asking for info and receiving these answers as it involves spreading some serious MISinformation about the KO/bootlegs (urging people to buy them on false premises, claims that aren't true or shouldn't be presumed).

    First of all, this kind of claim in Metroplex's case is being said without anything in depth about his overall quality being known (something I'm sure Spencer from A3U will provide asap, he points these quality differences out himself so people know and still sells lots so let's just not take these things as being of quality that they are not, aka of equal to the originals they are based on) and with little knowledge to back such a claim.
    But generally, judging by most the other new KO/bootlegs and adding the company doing Metroplex's inexperience in these I'd say there's plenty of reason to assume there will be greater and/or lessor quality issues NOT 'no difference' (aka the same). Just look at the Dinobots. If someone went out and bought one because someone here told them they are no different than the originals and equal in quality that is mighty unfair for that person who might be disappointed when they get one with a different plastic, chipping red chest, the wrong and missing weapons, and unfixable loose areas.

    Note that what I'm talking about in this thread has nothing to do with the 'right or wrong' and 'for or against' arguments surrounding these. It would just be nice if people didn't spread false information and baseless blanket assumptions about them that are either not proven or have already been proven to not be the case (being identical in quality). I know these have come a long way, but there are certain quality concerns that do make them inferior to their real cousins upon which they are based that prospective buyers deserve not to have shielded from them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2007
  2. Foster

    Foster Super Mod

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    I agree, let's keep it factual regarding QC issues. KO Metroplex LOOKS good, but he hasn't been reviewed by anyone independent yet. Plus, one person's "close enough for me" is another's "ZOMG junk" and that also applies to reissues or running change variants of new toys.

    Truth. I'm disappointed enough by KO Slag that I'm passing, unless he is improved in another run with the G1 colors and better paint on the diecast. My Slag is droopy-horned and loose as hell, I'd love a KO. But the one I've seen isn't good enough for the price.
     
  3. Optimist_Prime

    Optimist_Prime The Original Optimist!

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    I never assumed they were of equal quality. I think when I look at at Metroplex and Prime KO's I just wish they were. Somtimes, and I stress only somtimes, if the quality of the KO is at least pretty decent they can help monitarily challenged collectors such as my self.
     
  4. Jeremy.B

    Jeremy.B Formerly Leader Blackout TFW2005 Supporter

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    I agree with what you are saying, but at the same time, even a noob should know that a KnockOff will be of less quality. Not just transformers, but they sell KO perfume, handbags, shoes, etc., and just as a part of everyday life that term should be understood by anyone.

    If someone took what the poster said and went and bought a KO Metroplex and was dissappointed in the quality of it relative to the original, well, that is the buyer's fault for not understanding the inherent meaning of a KO.

    But, again, I agree that we shouldn't support the possibility that a KO is EVER better quality than an original.
     
  5. Paradigm-Shift Prime

    Paradigm-Shift Prime Unit Warrior TFW2005 Supporter

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    Yeah I know, but I have seen various people make blanket statements about how the quality is 'the same as original, only brand new!', etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2007
  6. Might Gaine

    Might Gaine The Devil Express

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    Seems like about half come out well and half have quality problems. And they all seem to have issues with red paint on metal.
     
  7. SureShot90

    SureShot90 Peace=superior firepower

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    Only K.O I have that I dare to say is equal I quality to the original is my Mirage. I don't have any other K.O at the moment, but I'm considering a K.O Swoop (I'm aware of his problems) and I'm thinking of a K.O Metroplex for a repaint project (Metro-Prime).
     
  8. Jeremy.B

    Jeremy.B Formerly Leader Blackout TFW2005 Supporter

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    well, anyone who thinks a knockoff should be the same quality as an original should have their head examined. It is why they call it a knockoff in the first place.

    Oh well...
     
  9. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    I just got KO Gold Prime, and on the figure the quality is damn close to the original. However, the trailer I can't even get open, and I'm scared that I'll rip it into two. My KO Swoop the quality is definitely not that of an Original.

    Quality is a crap shoot anyways.
     
  10. Seeker

    Seeker Time Lord

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    It's the old price vs quality debate. I've seen some KOs that are the same price as a loose but complete and decent g1 Tf and I would certainly choose the original (if I was inclined to spend that much money) mainlly because I know there is at least a 90% chance that this 2 decade old TF is better in quality than this KO of the same price. If I spend $75 for either both are going on a shelf or in a box some where so it doesn't matter to me. Now if it's a cheap KO (apparent bad quality) and you just want to have the mold in your collection have at it but don't expect too much from a $5 devastator pack.
     
  11. wheeljaxx

    wheeljaxx Banned

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    well,i have to say that my cassete KO's are just as good as my originals, the stickers could use some extra work, but we have reprolabels for that, and my Mirages are absolutly incredible quality.

    i have to back up the red paint thing, any one iv'e seen... and i own Ko swoop, the red paint is pure crap.

    im planning on getting wheeljack, and thats about it... unless they produce the dino cassettes, or beastbox and slamdance.
     
  12. Paradigm-Shift Prime

    Paradigm-Shift Prime Unit Warrior TFW2005 Supporter

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    Well, posting in this thread again because seeing more glossed over claims of the 'high quality' of the KO/bootleg reproductions in threads lately. Here's one from today:
    http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=161311
    (essentially saying they are equal quality to official reissues, just not official)

    The spreading of these claims makes me feel it necessary to again get it out there that: the KO reproductions have very inconsistent and often shoddy quality (the tapes and the Dinobots have lots of quality problems, even Mirage has some problems). They look like they are quality when you look at them but then as soon as you touch them they fall and chip apart.

    I have recently handled the ratbat/frenzy tape pack (right out of package) and the clear Mirage. I find all the tapes to be quite shoddy quality. The stickers fall off upon first transformation, they're barely even attached in the package. They're this cheap thin plasticy material that just doesn't adhere. Ratbat was as loose as Britney on downers, his feet were totally loose, couldn't hold any poses with feet or wings, has a this chunk of sprue plastic that keeps one side from closing in tape mode, his black chest flaked off a bit when I touched him, and no decepticon symbol on his chest. Frenzy, other than half his stickers coming off, is so-so, his legs keep popping out, one of his feet keeps falling out, and both had scratches on them.
    The Mirage is ok, the frame of the figure itself is decent (no die-cast piece at the feet, presumably because clear version) but the clear one came with stained red/white stickers attached to him, a scratched '26' on his nose, loose back wheels, extra rubber flakes still hanging off the wheels, and his arms don't pull all the way out in bot mode, stressing the plastic.

    This is not an ethical thing I am getting at here. The point is simple: for these KO/bootlegs, BUYERS BEWARE, they may appear at first sight as equivalent replacements to their authentic counterparts, but they suffer various and often quite major (lack of) quality problems. And I didn't even mention Dinobots this time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2007
  13. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    If the Mirage was good as the Original maybe It will work for Metroplex/Metrotitan.
     
  14. Paradigm-Shift Prime

    Paradigm-Shift Prime Unit Warrior TFW2005 Supporter

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    Metroplex has already been reviewed by a few people and he appears to have some problems. But the Metroplex is done by a different company that that who's done the tapes/dinobots/mirage so that might not be the best comparison. (And the Mirage KO being as good as the original (when it was brand new) is highly debatable too. It doesn't have ridiculously glaring problems like the others but...)
     
  15. RKillian

    RKillian https://rktoys.myshopify.com

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    Isn't it a forgone conclusion that you'll just judge every single positive review of Mirage (and Wheeljack and Sunstreaker and so on) as irrelevant in favor of absolutely any other negative remark you can find no matter how biased/uninformed the source or inaccurate/anecdotal the content?

    Because that's really the issue here. People are coming to this forum looking for information on these reproductions and all you and a few others can do is repeat "ROAR!! KNOCKOFFS BAD!!" like a broken record. Why can't you follow Spencer's excellent example (your post before last is an OK start, but Mirage must be your white whale or something)?

    To be fair, I was also frustrated with many fans' exaltations of the quality of the official Hasbro TransFormers Universe brand. I had many of _those_ toys fall apart in my hands because of non-existant QC too. Where were you in those threads and why are you trying so hard to turn people off to good quality reproductions while turning a blind eye to those that really _do_ hurt toy collectors?
     
  16. bandron

    bandron seeker jets' nightmare

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    Yes the new(er) toys have had some QC issues but that is for another thread. The OP is about the fact that people are claiming that the new KO/Bootlegs are just as good as the original toys and that is proving to be false information. The fact that it is false info is enough to complain. I do not think that the average person is as good a judge as those of use in the TF collecting niche and that they don't really know what to look for if they are wanting to get a transformer for say their boy/girl friend. They see these auctions that claim they are just as good and for a fraction of the price and they probably think that they are getting a good deal. They might feel a bit miffed if they then find out that the toy was junk or at least not as the folks who sold it to them claimed it would be. As for the "white whale" mirage it has been mentioned before that he is pretty close in a lot of aspects but there are still problems with it from time to time. It is one of the better bootlegs but with that comes problems. The bootlegs are getting harder to tell from original which in a collectors market can be a very bad thing. How would you feel if you got that bone white "original" Wheeljack that came with all the pieces for $150 only to find when you get him that he is a bootleg? It would suck, plain and simple. Or you could look at the other side of the coin, to those attempting to sell their collections. Since these bootlegs are coming on the scene, the corresponding originals are not going to sell for as much because people are not going to spend $150 on an original when the could just pick up a bootleg that is "just as good" for half that. So yes in some cases we do feel "ROAR!! BOOTLEGS BAD" but for reasons other then just to complain about them.
     
  17. Paradigm-Shift Prime

    Paradigm-Shift Prime Unit Warrior TFW2005 Supporter

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    Dude, imo you are the one 'RAWR'ing over the matter here, your first line barely even makes sense to me, I commented about how Mirage has been the best quality of them so far, haven't disclaimed anybody else's reviews, and just reviewed one with a focus on quality concerns based on having it IN MY HAND (also it seems like you're fueled by another issue in your response).

    It's funny that you say I am misleading people looking for information as that is exactly what this thread is a response to. :lol  I am trying to substantiate the issue of lookalike KO quality and not just scream 'RAWR' repeatedly as you claim. The only post I have posted here in the last few days is the one you refer to, and it is an update on the VERY LEGITIMATE (see post below) thread's theme based on a) that more people have been making 'identical quality' posts in other threads, and b) that I recently got my hands on clear Mirage and Ratbat/Frenzy. I give a fair account of quality problems based on things RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, not general or glossed over 'RAWRing'. Mirage is better than the others (the rest of which are FAR from equivalent quality) but still has some problems. Maybe other reviewers were anxious to review it as being awesome? Maybe they were willing to overlook some issues as it is Mirage and overall pulls him off 'feeling' like the original? Maybe the one I got my hands on had some problems the next one didn't (inconsistency is a big problem with these, Mirage also didn't come with instructions or stickers btw)? I don't know, but I'm not just making up problems to say bad stuff about it. And the tapes have problems that just scream at you.

    So are you really railing at me or do you have some problem with Hasbro that fuels this rage? Or do you not want quality of the KOs being discussed?
    This thread was a response to other people spreading the idea that the bootleg kos are 'the same quality, just not authentic', which they are not, so I am trying to have real information out there, trying to inform rather than mislead as you say. This and concerns over the bootlegs being sold as originals (i.e. trademark stamp, box) are all I post regarding the ko bootlegs, and these seem like quite reasonable things to be discussing.
    Read this post below:
    (also, what's with the wheeljack/sunstreaker comment, they're not even out yet).


     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2007
  18. Prisoner1138

    Prisoner1138 TFW2005 Supporter

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    Wow, you really should calm down.

    No one ever said KO's can't look good, but to deny that a lot of them do have problems is just silly.

    If we're talking about the same spencer, he posted an encore vs ko prime review here: http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=159412 which I found a TON of issues, some of which he was aware of but for some reason or another decided not to mention. Spencer does not really qualify as an independent reviewer of KO's, when he sells and avidly promotes them. I was able to find issues in a photo gallery, I would imagine that with the KO in my hands I could spot more. However, the interesting thing about that is, I'm never going to be purchasing any KO's to do a comparison. Especially if I already had high quality originals, I'd be buying the KO's just for the sake of reviewing them. Which is actually an interesting point, because how many people have posted on this forum saying "wow, this KO is good", actually have a high quality original(or at least official re-issue)? I'd imagine not a lot.
     
  19. taterx

    taterx Lurkin since Transfandom

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    I ordered Sunstreaker and Wheeljack but don't have them yet. I do have Mirage and had the original which broke in half on me in a week back in '84. I do not want to pay full price for supposedly lost molds that can't be remade so that's why I buy KO's to begin with.

    Anyway the quality on this Mirage is great, I have 0 complaints. The painted on stripes are a huge plus in my book. The chrome is shiny and the joints are tight.

    I only hope the next two are as nice as these.
     
  20. wheeljaxx

    wheeljaxx Banned

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    due to quality control, KO quality varies. maaybe your mirage is shit, maybe your tapes are shit, maybe your swoop really rocks, fact is, indisputable, that MY mirage, MINE, my own, no body elses, is absolulty, un-fathomably identical in quality to both my diaclone and G1 mirage. Other than a missing screw, and the painted on details. i'd have a hard time picking them out if i didn't know better. Same with MY KO tapes for ratbat. MINE IS AWSOME, other than a color variance, and the shitty paint job, he's perfect. Guess you guys didn't luck out.

    now my Swoop, i've heard SOME good things, but mine is total and utter shit! i had to replace so many parts with a junker and re-paint the red BLUE, just to get a decently constructed anime swoop. i knew going it it had issues, but i wanted to customise it anyway, and i wanted the box and bubble.
     

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