Why the Hatred for Critics?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by AutobotAvalanche, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Old-fashioned Hurgusburgus

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    I kinda feel awkward making another one of these "ultimatum" threads in the movie section, but three or four times as many threads discussing this or that specific aspect of the movies pop up in that span of time, so eh.

    So here I am asking another question to a surprisingly large amount of Bayverse fans: what do you have against professional critics?

    I'm not saying you have to agree with their opinions. If you like the Bay films, that's fine. Most of the time I just ignore reviews myself and form my own opinion after watching a movie (unless it's for some standalone unknown quantity film not tied to a franchise or anything.) Critics are just there to provide a potential gauge of quality and enjoyment for those who are more careful with how many movies they're willing to spend money on.

    But I see so many threads and posts in the News and Movie subs, usually revolving around some variation of "fuck critics". (One particularly extreme example I saw tonight that was the main cause behind me making this thread suggested that the people at Rolling Stones who nominated TLK as 2017's worst film should be shot.) I've never seen any other fandom that takes critical analysis so personally.

    And I don't mean that in the "devil's advocate" or "white knight" sense. I've done plenty of overblown defending of the Bay films myself. I'm talking about the people who seem to take personal offense at the idea of someone not liking these films and sharing that opinion with others.

    Why do so many fans act like this? Do the movies just resonate at certain people's core more than any other part of the franchise does? Or is just a general trend for all big franchises and I'm not looking hard enough? I'm genuinely curious. And if I count as a critic for this, then here, I'll save you the trouble and flip myself off.

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  2. Ninjanicktf

    Ninjanicktf She's a killer, queen

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    While there genuinely are terrible critics out there, i think the whole "Critics are horrible" thing comes from people who didn't think the same about whatever the critic was reviewing (Like how some people apparently tried to get rotten tomatoes shut down because they gave Suicide Squad a low rating) What i mean is, look in a YouTube comment for a video by someone like say The Nostalgia Critic or IHE, some of the "hate" comments are from people who aren't mad because in their opinions they think they are bad critics, no, they hate them because they gave a bad review to something they like.
     
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  3. NotRamjet97

    NotRamjet97 Time to Chika you in!

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    I personally just don't care. I like the movies, and I can provide reasons for why I like them. A lot of times I roll my eyes because they're not really saying anything new. Why should I care to hear what _____ says when ______ says the exact same thing, especially when I find fault with what both _____ and _____ said?

    But, at the same time, if you hear it enough times it can just get grating. You get sick of it. Not to mention a lot of criticisms seem to insult the people who like them. (It can go the other way, too, but I don't think quite as often)
     
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  4. Tracer

    Tracer _

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    Nothing, I just don't listen to them at all.

    There seems to be socially acceptable ideas of what a "good" movie is. Critics are slaves to that. Many people are too. I'll listen to friends I trust. other than that. I just do my best to figure out whether its my kind of movie before I go. Works pretty good for me.
     
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  5. electronic456

    electronic456 擎天柱

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    I think for me personally, it boils down to how you perceive certain things.

    Sometimes I just don't find myself on board with what one person perceives as horrible or even great for that matter. And that's because I can form my reasons behind them.

    One example for me would be the Star Wars prequels. I remember my first exposure to The Phantom Menace. I was terrified by Darth Maul. I found Jar Jar entertaining to an extent (Unbelievable, right?). I had no knowledge of the hate to stuff like Jar Jar being a stereotype or the Trade Federation negotiation stuff. Even to this day, I still don't hate the prequels as much as people like RLM are trying to convince me to.

    As for Transformers, I remember watching ROTF after being excited by the 2007 movie. I remember getting excited seeing all those new robots as well as returning faces. When something like Devastator sucking up the sand came up, I focused on that moment and the whole thing about balls just went over my head. Now as an adult seeing those problems, I do have my reservations on the movie but I don't think ROTF is the worst movie of 2009. Dragon Ball Evolution or Legend of Chun-Li, anyone? It was either those two for me.

    As much as I think AOE isn't that great of a movie, someone in this forum has defended it pretty well that I just accept. In fact, if anyone likes AOE for good reason, congratulations you have a unique set of reasons as to why.

    If I hate a movie, it's due to my strong feelings alone not because someone tells me to. So um... yeah. I would like it if we can stop being so dramatic of 'professional' opinions.
     
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  6. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    I think some people don't like the pile on effect from critics. The Bay TF movies are not good movies, but they're nowhere near as offensive as critics like to pretend. Bay has become a popular whipping boy and safe target for critics to enjoy bashing.

    Bad movies? Sure. Worst movies of their year? Not even close in even one case. Nor are they the harbinger of the fall of Western Civilization.

    Even then, I don't mind the professional reviewers. If I was a professional reviewer, I would have to, in good conscience, call them bad movies myself. It's the amateur Youtuber pseudo-film scholar dorks who bug me. They try so hard to sound educated and knowledgeable, but it's so clear by the way they phrase things that they don't actually know jack shit about anything. There are a few exceptions, like RLM, who are pretty legit, but most of them are empty holes.
     
  7. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    Well, I already learned in the early 90s, when I was little, that critics don't mean shit if I like a movie or not. Most of the times, when critics said a movie is bad, I usually found it awesome. And movies a critic likes was a total borefest. There is a difference between movies that are meant to entertain and those that are meant to be art. And most of the critics rip apart movies that are only meant for entertainment. But later I learned, it's not always the opposite of what a critic says. In the case of the Transformers movies, I mostly agree with critics, although I found DOTM and TLK to be the best Transformers live action movies so far. I don't know what the critics said about these two, but they probably didn't like them either.

    Usually critics measure the quality of a movie in totally different aspects than the target audience would do. So them criticizing a movie is most of the time totally worthless.

    There is always only ONE person in the world who definitely knows if a movie is great or not. And that is YOU. A movie can be total crap, but if you like it, it's a good movie. Maybe subjectively it might be shit, but that doesn't matter.

    I love for example a lot of Van Damme or Schwarzenegger movies. I doubt most of these movies are subjectively great movies. But I love them, to me they are great, because they have everything that I want from such a movie. I totally prefer a dumb action movie with a simple plot to a modern action movie where they try to not piss off anyone. I also love jokes like Carbombia in G1.

    What's worse is, people taking critics serious. Like how the hell could rottentomatoes become so important so so many people? Really? That's beyond stupid. Even before that, people looking for ratings on IMDB... you can't judge if a movie is worth watching just by reading people telling you how they liked a movie. That's always subjective. If it sounds interesting, watch it. If the cover and plot sound like you wouldn't rent it, then don't watch it. Probably you're right. Sometimes you end up watching a bad movie that you don't like, but sometimes you find a gem you otherwise would never have watched because everyone else thought the movie was poop.

    Just the same with thinking the music in the top 100 must be good, because most people bought those songs. That way of thinking pushes the same songs and leaves out diversity. If I would listen only the most popular songs, I would have never found my favorite music genres that I prefer to listen to.

    Actually it's the same with us posting our opinions here. They are worth only to ourselves. If I say something is bad or not over and over again will never change someone else having a different opinion. Because our tastes differ.
     
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  8. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

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    When it comes to to movie reviews these days, there's "they're not good" and then there's overdramatic "fall of western civilization" rhetoric in which its obvious the reviewer made up his/her mind in advance and refuses to entertain the idea of having to eat crow later.

    Just read Peter Travers' reviews of the movies. You'll understand then.
     
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  9. WEEGEE

    WEEGEE the one, the only... biggie cheese!

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    Because dey no lyke wat I lyke.
     
  10. primal789

    primal789 Prime

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    Yes exactly but people these days are hypocritical..and I'm not pointing back fingers and as I said a thousand times already I'm not even speaking as a fan here..just c'mon now..no movie deserves that..people confuse opinion with facts..I just want to keep it simple and to get my point across to those who can understand..insulting the movies every 2 words and then saying "We should all follow suit" with not going to see future movies.They could say it about Twilight or other movies I dislike..not even 1 of these deserve this treatmeant.I don't get it and I never can do that..I feel like they should act more responsible..they could hate it,who cares..sure,they can even but they just act like an angry fan would.I can't step so low..I don't care..I don't look for statistics and don't care about what people think but it's kinda sad..People are really reading it man...and it will affect the future..as TLK was affected by the critical reception..these movies already suffered enough..(the last couple of things I said were just concerns of a fan..but other than that I was just general thoughts about this problem..We're gonna have different opinions but saying we should all do something and insulting the franchise..making cheap jokes about Bay doesn't look like they respect these "different opinions").But oh well..I'll still be labeled as a BLIND MOVIE DEFENDER.Thank you for listening..
     
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  11. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Insecurity.
     
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  12. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    ^This.

    And I'll keep using Nostalgia's Chick review as an example because she DID destroy Bayverse movies except she did it in a way how a movie critique should be performed. Pointed at the flaws one after another instead of going for the easy route critics usually go this day when they're just trying to be funny and use hyperboles.

    Good critique is supposed to be a professional analysis what's not working with the movie, not just listening to or watching someone making show of themselves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
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  13. BarricadeLives

    BarricadeLives i'm you! i'm your shadow!

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    i personally do not care if someone likes the films or not..its all subjective anyway..its a little eyerolling how people just go 'oh, michael bay, explosions!' but its been over 20 years so im used to that by now...but if someone trashes the film or praises it..makes no nevermind to me...idgaf
     
  14. primal789

    primal789 Prime

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    Just what I just said..they should be more professional but they're just hypocrites and petty as an angry fan who tries so hard to sound educated but they're just making a spectacle of cheap insults..
     
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  15. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I think there was a cultural shift somewhere.

    Back in the ancient days when neon colors seemed like a good idea, MTV played music videos, and you had to blow on the cartridge to make your video game work people just accepted that some of the things they really enjoyed just weren't that good. So if the two popular critics of the time both gave an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie the thumbs down it was hardly the end of the world. You could enjoy something like Big Trouble in Little China without it getting praise and awards.

    But now people seem to just get bent out of shape if everyone doesn't say whatever they like isn't the best of the best. Video game fans were ready to tear down a site because it dared to give a game only 95 out of 100. DC fans came up with conspiracy theories that Marvel/Disney is dropping off large sacks of money at a critics door to have them say the DCEU films just aren't very good. You can't point out that music isn't very good these days without people getting in an uproar.

    We just live in this weird period of don't dare to be critical of anything I might be a fan of. Doesn't matter if the quarterback of my favorite team has a poor pass completion ratio it's just haters being haters. People just have this warped idea of if you say something is less than perfect then it's a personal insult to everyone in the fan base.
     
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  16. MnemonicSyntax

    MnemonicSyntax Multiquote, thread searches = lost art

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    I don't particularly hate the critics, I just hate the people who think their opinions (professional or not) is some sort of word of God, all out end-all-to-be-all definitive answer that the movies suck.

    I've seen folks on this forum state they feel bad because they like the movies but because critics generally do not, they think they shouldn't either.

    It's a sad day when you have to tell someone to just enjoy what they enjoy without having to cave to any sort of pressure.
     
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  17. Galvatross

    Galvatross I'm a dankster! Veteran

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    I agree fully that she analyzed the film in a manner that more critics should analyze films, but even then...are some of the film theories Nostalgia Chick used to criticize the films even necessary to apply to the Transformers films? Or even most major motion pictures? Furthermore, I feel some of those theories she used to apply to the Bay films get into ideological territory that could potentially break site rules.

    My issues are 1) the hyperbole, knee-jerk, band-wagon critical culture. Critics use a lot of hyperbole and a lot of bullshit arguments to destroy the Bay films. The films are perhaps the safest cinematic targets there are. Even many online critics who have written series of articles posting unpopular opinions have said, "But the Bay films are crap," and we're talking people who defend Batman and Robin and the like. Additionally, I feel for the last few entries the Bay films largely get bashed by critics and fans for existing and not for their execution, which gets me to my next point. There's no way Peter Travers went into any of the Bay films with an open mind.

    2) I feel like the Bay films get hated for not being something they aren't trying to be. They are over-the-top, loud action movies with ridiculous moments...and that is what they are trying to be. They know exactly what they are. Also, I feel like the Bay movies really aren't worse than a lot of better reviewed films that are also over-the-top and loud. Overall, they're actually far from being the worst of the recent big budget franchise films in my opinion. Frankly, I think a Bay Transformers movie should be over-the-top and loud, but some critics just don't like any film like that. And that gets to me to my next point.

    3) It's abundantly clear that many of the criticisms of the films stem from the territory of the source material itself and do not entirely result from Bay's version of it. Transformers has always had its share of camp, ridiculous concepts, over-the-top action, silly dialogue, bizarre characters, etc. That's actually part of the charm. Many of the criticisms of the Bay films by critics would be present in any Transformers film that would realistically see the light. I'm not saying that means they have to like Transformers, but it's obvious that many critics would likely never like a Transformers film even from a different production team, at least not without some major changes from the source material.

    Maybe it's because I try to have realistic expectations and try not to judge the movies before I see them, but most of the Bay films have actually pleasantly surprised me, and there's maybe one or two other recent franchise films that I enjoy as much as my favorite of the Bay films.

    4) As Southtownkid said, the pseudo-intellectual Youtube reviewers that all have the same damn opinion every time and have no idea what they are talking about.

    Intelligent and educated people, including people educated in film, can have vastly disparate opinions from each other, and when everyone has the same damn opinions it suggests to me that very few people are thinking for themselves. I wish more people would think for themselves and actually analyze the films on their own terms, regardless of whether they like the films or not, rather than parrot each other's bullshit arguments ad nauseum.
     
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  18. ChaosDonkey

    ChaosDonkey Lord Brain

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    I don't need critics to tell what opinion i have to have about any movie.
    I am completely capable of creating an opinion about any movie for my self.
    Even any movie without Transformers and Michael Bay.
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  19. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    She made her points in a coherent manner, though. Liking her conclusions or not, those elements are present in said movies.
    Whether to care about them or not is a different matter.

    However, when she got to the part why Bayformer movies aren't good action flicks she was absolutely on point.
    And that's what is a good review. Evaluate the movie in terms of what it is supposed to be and whether it works as intended or not rather than what a critic thinks about what a given movie should be.

    It's not only a thing with Bayformer movies.

    The Justice League is starting to be another whipping boy for the same breed of "critics".
    It's a flaved movie, sure... Big deal. Anyone with a brain can figure it on their own. Not an excuse for using it as a bait for easy YT views.

    The state of media journalism these days.

    Can't say I'm hating on critics. I just don't have any respect for and can't take seriously majority of them. Hating would be giving too much care about some.
     
  20. Galvatross

    Galvatross I'm a dankster! Veteran

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    And on that, I agree fully. Nostalgia Chick may have done that, but not all of the critical reviews are doing that, and that is why I, like you, can't take most of them seriously these days.
     
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