Why [spoiler] had to happen

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Da_Razorsaw, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. Da_Razorsaw

    Da_Razorsaw Highwire ownz j00

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    Much ado about Hardshell has been made, and I wanted to spell out my thoughts about it in a manner that wouldn't get lost in a sea of posts.

    "Hurt" is about revenge. Specifically, how revenge is hollow and doesn't ultimately achieve anything. This was a lesson Miko had to learn, and if Hardshell hadn't died, it would have been much more hollow.

    Much ado about revenge as a character point has been made regarding Arcee, and the distinct difference between her actions and Miko's in this episode was that "Hurt" had to explore what happened when someone achieved it. This is shown when Miko says that she "doesn't feel different" even after she succeeded in killing Hardshell.

    Hardshell had to die, because Miko had to do something she couldn't take back. How "cool" he is is not the point. Much ado was made about how much potential he had, but that's not why Hardshell exists - Hardshell is an example of a character being used as a device. This is a perfectly valid approach to storytelling as much as any other.

    If nothing had happened, if Miko had NOT been the one responsible, this episode would have no teeth at all.
     
  2. LCDR Blindside

    LCDR Blindside Banned

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    It's true, mate, and it was the point of the episode. Some people are just too sickeningly hung up on hatin' Miko to start up their neurons and realize that she's an actual human bean with emotions, and that this could be th' start of a bleedin' important arc for her.
     
  3. PrimesRule

    PrimesRule Banned

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    Brilliant, excellent point.
     
  4. Thilda

    Thilda Treat your mother right!

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    Well said!

    I especially liked that despite getting their revenge, Bulkhead didn't magically get better. If it wasn't for Knockout, this episode would be 100% serious and depressing.

    And I'm actually surprised that so many people were complaining about Hardshells demise- the way he was portrayed in those two episodes you could feel he's only a plot device. Unlike other 'Cons there was not much to like about him except badassery. No backstory, no ties to other characters, questionable charisma- just a bigger and badder Steve with an actual name.

    Maybe it's because everybody is starving for a new character, idk.
     
  5. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Agreed. If Miko hadn't killed Hardshell, she wouldn't have learned that killing him wouldn't make a difference to Bulkhead's condition.
     
  6. ChaosDonkey

    ChaosDonkey Lord Brain

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    spot on
     
  7. Stygimoloch

    Stygimoloch ROBOT! JET! ROBOT!

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    True dat. I like how after Prime using Revenge stories as a crutch for two and a half seasons we see that the resolution is rather unfulfilling for the characters.
     
  8. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    It's much like Spider-Man 3 except instead of Topher Grace we have Miko.
     
  9. Stygimoloch

    Stygimoloch ROBOT! JET! ROBOT!

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    Vast improvement, methinks.
     
  10. PcPrime23

    PcPrime23 Filipinooooooooooooo

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    Well said :) 
     
  11. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    I agree with the others, well said.

    While I have my personal disappointments about it, it doesn't prevent me from looking at it objectively as a good method to carry on the story with more than just a meaningless death.
     
  12. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

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    I can't really say that the message came across as well as it should have. The way I see it, even if the message means 'it changes nothing' it actually did. In the process of vengeance both Whelljack and Miko killed off many troopers, destroyed a Decepticon war assets and killed off a dangerous Decepticon. In many ways, the autobots came up ahead.

    So despite Miko's feelings, this episode actually ended up endorsing vengeance as a suitable option.

    If it was supposed to be vengeance changes nothing, it should have been an equal exchange. The autobots and Miko losing more things in taking vengeance. Bulkhead is not an equal exchange because he paid for it himself in killing off many Decepticons and destroying the Tox-En. Bulkhead already paid for it by making sure no one else would get hurt by Tox-en. Not only that, he's still alive with a chance of recovery, not so for Hardshell.
     
  13. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    Numbers can fall in battles, emotional wounds do not heal in them.
     
  14. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

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    I doubt emotional wounds are enough to cover the gains that the autobots accomplished in this episode or to say that the quest for vengeance was useless.
     
  15. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    To endorse killing for revenge is to endorse killing for ANY emotional disturbance, Optimus knows this, and knows that more damage is done than any good by seeking revenge.

    "Anger may in time change to gladness; vexation may be succeeded by content. But a kingdom that has once been destroyed can never come again into being; nor can the dead ever be brought back to life. Hence the enlightened ruler is heedful, and the good general full of caution. This is the way to keep a country at peace and an army intact." - Sun Tzu
     
  16. nobleboivin

    nobleboivin Well-Known Member

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    nicelly said
     
  17. Ironhide1706

    Ironhide1706 Elessar Telcontar

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    I love messages like that. It makes me appreciate the writing more.
     
  18. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

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    It may be true that killing for revenge endorses killing for any negative feelings, but I doubt this is was shown in the most recent episode. The actions of Wheeljack and Miko did not really show any negative impact to them or to their relationships. A message such as this would have been shown if it caused a breakdown of camaraderie between allies or friends who take revenge, but it does not.

    Will the impact of Miko and Whelljack's actions affect future episodes, possibly. But I'm only basing my opinion on the most recent episode and I feel a sense of finality to what has transpired.
     
  19. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Hardshell only existed to be killed. Just like Cliffjumper and Skyquake. And I'm sure all the Breakdown fans can agree that it's better to kill someone new than a very liked character.

    Speaking of Breakdown, this would have been a much better death for him. In Crossfire, he died by someone he barely knew just so MECH could put Silas in something which could have been achieved without killing someone. If he died in Hurt, it would be after he put his rival in a coma and his rivals' friends come after him and kill him.

    And lastly, I hated Hardshell. It was one of the most pathetic attempt at a character I've ever seen. The only difference between it and the generic Insecticons was that it had strips and talked more. And Armada showed us the others can talk, they just don't talk as often. It's personality did not go any further than beast who fights people and in his debut episode, it couldn't even do that. Also, I was very disappointed that it was what David Kaye was voicing. In the end, I was glad he died and it helped make up for Bulkhead not doing so.
     
  20. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    They blew up over three TONS (that's 6,000 pounds, or 2721.55 kilograms) of life-giving Energon! Energon that the Autobots DIRELY need, not only as a power source, but also for their own lives!

    The other Insecticons will want blood, Megatron was in a perfect position to underestimate the humans, especially the children. Megatron's underestimation kept his guard down from us fleshlings, if we took advantage of that, we could've set up a carefully devised plan to strike him, and hard because he didn't see us as a threat. Now he will take harder measures to protect the 'Cons from humans.

    Megatron has also seen Miko prior, Megs has no idea about Jack killing the Insecticon with Scraplets, but he knows Miko is aligned with the Autobots, and is credited with offing Hardshell. Miko is now a target, with the Decepticons' eyes watching out for her, not necessarily out of fear, but who to squish.

    All that is unnecessary losses and heat, just to attempt to remedy "being pissed off". Bulkhead knew what he was into, Miko knows that, Wheeljack ESPECIALLY knew that, he witnessed a former comrade EXPLODE in front of his very eyes. Death and injury come with their war, killing a SINGLE member of the enemy, and DESTROYING VALUABLE RESOURCES to "send a message" did much a much worse blow to the Autobots than it did the Decepticons.
     

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