Why is everyone obsessed with this movie not being G1?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Dr Kain, Nov 10, 2006.

  1. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    14,980
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +109
    For the last few months, all I have read is how this movie is going to suck because it is nothing like G1 Transformers. Thing is, that is exactly why this movie is going to be a success. Look at the recent slew of comic books <coughcoughIDWcoughcough>, they down right suck. Why? Because they are trying to recreate G1 with a new plot. Look at RID, Armada, Energon, etc. Why did they suck? They tried to recreate G1. Why was Beast Wars a success? It took G1 and expanded on the universe by making everything brand new. Why was War Within a great comic series? Once again, it took the G1 story and expanded on it to make it the creators' own story. The best thing about the movie is they are not trying to recreate G1, but trying to create their own story with their own ideas and concepts. While you may disagree with me on having Transformers look different being cool, but you have to admit, everything that has tried to give us G1 with a different concept (whether it be TFs leaving Cybertron to search for Minicrons, Planet Keys, or whatever, or just making humans the center of attention <coughInfiltrationcough>), it has failed, and failed miserably.
     
  2. Sideways

    Sideways Banned

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Posts:
    2,432
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    i think the movie will do good...and that its NOT g1..
     
  3. KA

    KA PENIS GOES WHERE?!!

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Posts:
    23,225
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +17
    while i'm dissapointed with how ridiculously overzealous some fans have gotten, i appreciate where theyre coming from: theyve waited 20 years to see this (compared to the fans of newer lines) so they sorta deserve it, y'know.

    the only reason old school guys like me are cool with whatever they doing with the movie is because, as long time fans, we know that the movie is not the beginning and end of all things TF. its just a fricking movie.
     
  4. Quantum_Penguin

    Quantum_Penguin Be seeing you...

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2002
    Posts:
    557
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Likes:
    +0
    Dr. Kain, your points are contradictory. In response to complaints that it is not G1, many defenders of this film have stated over and over that it deviates from the Transformers core concepts no more than Armada or any other rehash has, and that most fans were fine with it. To be fair, that is true; all the core concepts are there, just the execution is very different. Furthermore, BW was not originally intended to be a sequel to G1, it too recycled the plot of MTMTE (almost by accident actually), just like every series since. If aping G1 is what made those shows so unsuccessful, then, by your reasoning, this movie won't be successful.
     
  5. Lycanthropic Tendencies

    Lycanthropic Tendencies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    527
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Likes:
    +5
    And the movie is doing the exact same thing.

    It's not G1 continuity.
    Unlike G1 or retconned Beast wars, it's a bunch of new characters from an alternate reality with old names stuck on.


    So just like the other lines you mentioned, it sucks with the "it's not g1" crowd and the "it's just G1 again" crowd.
     
  6. The Phazer

    The Phazer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    161
    Likes:
    +0
    No they don't. Much as I don't especially care for Su's art, Infiltration is an excellent book that really gets what Transformers is pretty well.

    How was Beast Wars a success? Sure, it sold moderately well at the time, but the lines since BM have all sold better according to Hasbro's stock market reports (since they've reported an increase in TF sales every year since). BW didn't do very well internationally. BW's 10th anniversary line sold quite poorly. BM deviates more from G1 - by your logic, it should have been a success. It wasn't.

    I love the TWW. But it doesn't do anything original. It's slavish to G1. Very.

    I don't have to agree with you at all. I can look at the evidence, where the original G1 movie when it got released on DVD was a huge seller (beat AI which was released the same week). Nostalgia lead merchandise sells strongly, and sells well internationally too (which is one of the reasons Alternators beat Energon in the UK, since Energon didn't have a cartoon to back it up and things were equal). Citroen have a crazy reaction to their commercial because people thought it looked like an awesome, very G1 Transformer. That advert is still getting 20+ plays a day NOW. The general audience, way more than any of your examples, really connected to it. Because the general public only remember G1, and are only going to go and see this film because they remember G1. That's the only pull this movie has - it certainly doesn’t have the talent to pull in the audience to recoup it’s massive costs.

    Phazer
     
  7. blueandwhite

    blueandwhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Posts:
    1,027
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +0
    I happen to think that this movie is going to suck for reasons completely unrelated to G1.

    Frankly, as nostalgic as I may be, I certainly wouldn't want a live-action version of G1. Too many of the concepts just spell out disaster (mass-shifting being the most obvious). Its alot like die-hard Batman fans who insist that Batman needs a 12 year old Robin and a pair of spandex tights to remain true to the character. I can't see a general audience buying into it.

    The thing is, I think that the direction that Bay and co. are taking this movie is just as bad, if not worse than a live-action G1 movie could hope to be. The robot designs are absolutely freakish, completely ignoring any pre-existing TF aesthetic for TFs that look more like humanoid insects than anything else. For me, this alone is a complete turn off. What makes it worse is the fact that Michael Bay has never been one for good characterization. Most of his characters simply deliver the same tired cliches, making them hard to identify with. Pairing that sort of characterization with these grotesque insectoids doesn't exactly fill me with much hope. Finally we have a large cast of B-actors, perfectly suited for delivering Bay's cliched one-liners.

    With the aforementioned issues, the fact that this movie is or isn't G1 is the least of my concerns.
     
  8. nuopus

    nuopus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Posts:
    694
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +0
    Its just a movie. I think people should get over the fact that it is not a G1 movie and never will be so they are just fuming over nothing. If they caught up on it being G1 and cant let that go then just turn around and walk the other way because its not going to change. It will probably be healthier for you anyway because you wont be stressed out as much.

    I love the designs. I fail to see how they are insect like unless you are just hopping on the bandwagon. What part of prime is insect like? Not his head, not is arms legs or body. I agree StarScream has insect like legs (chicken?) but that does not describe the rest of the models we have seen. Unless you call car parts sticking out everywhere insect like? I dont know.
     
  9. Dr Kain

    Dr Kain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Posts:
    14,980
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +109
    I fail to see how the designs should matter at all. It si the story of the movie that matters most of all, not how the robots look.
     
  10. Ziero

    Ziero TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Posts:
    4,790
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Likes:
    +0
    The faces of the decepticons we have seen do look insect like, but that's about it. The designs are the next evolutionary step in what an Alternator could be as they're not limited by needed a low price point and small scale. Though you don't have to love the looks, the fact of the matter is they are designed with much mre freedom and realism then any other TF before. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is still something that has yet to be determined.

    As for the G1 thing, this is the closest we've come to G1 re-imagined then any other series released. It has a full G1 cast, including human interaction, is heavily based on the basic G1 plot and uses the overall same concepts, minus mass shifting/morphing. The characters were reported to maintain their G1-esque personalities to an extent and the conflict is just like what happened in G1, only with less troops on each side. When people start watching the movie these concepts will start to show themselves more and more, if it's done right that is.

    I'm not saying it's going to be a great movie nor am I saying it's going to suck. All I am saying is that there is a good reason behind the bot's design, for the most part, and that story-wise it *is* based off of G1. Whether these make the movie a success or not remain to be seen, but in the end it's only just a movie.
     
  11. Blunticon

    Blunticon The Oddjob

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Posts:
    3,685
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    Ive waited a long time for this to happen and I think the movie will be a great success. Alot of the fans grew up with the G1 image and its etched in their brain so thats what they want to see. But change is good, and this movie will impress alot of folks old and new.
     
  12. The Phazer

    The Phazer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    161
    Likes:
    +0
    No it isn't. If it is, the movie is already in trouble given this is a Michael Bay film. It'll barely even have a plot.

    If the story was all that mattered, they'd leave the lights on in the theatre and give everyone a book. They don't, because the visuals are important, and they're probably the most important factor in if people go and see a film. Any film.

    That's not even remotely a fact. The designs give no more movement (and arguably less) in and of themselves than, say, Alternator designs would do.

    They're designed the way they are because the designers and MB thought it would be "cooler" to have robots that looked utterly inhuman because they were aliens, and that detail = good so therefore more detail = better.

    Phazer
     
  13. Ziero

    Ziero TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Posts:
    4,790
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Likes:
    +0
    Actually they add much more flexibility and stability to the designs doing it how they did. Though alts do have a lot of flexibilty, it's still very limited when compared to a living being. Most have no flexibility at all in the torso section, and require numeroue extra joints to get their limbs and appendages to move in a fashion similar to a human's. The skeletal, 'layered' look of these robots provides a much greater range of motion while using fewer major joints. Also, the much sturdier foot designs on all the bot's we've seen gives them a better semblence of balance then Alt designs, many of which use rather bizarre items to support themselves like car seats and rear doors. With a wheel on the ground acting like a foot's heel, and other car parts surrounding it acting as toes and the rest of the foot, they have a better concept of balance working for them.

    I never said you have to like the designs, there are many things about them I don't like myself. But to say they are less flexible then alts is laughable at best. These *are* what Alts would look like if they used all parts of a car as well as building a stable, combat worthy robot as opposed to a toy robot with a car parts shell.

    Edit: Also, I doubt Bay designed these and, other then the faces, they look more like machines then aliens. Only Megatron has a distinctly 'alien' feel to him as his doesn't use an earth alt mod. The robots themselves, they look like robots.
     
  14. blueandwhite

    blueandwhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Posts:
    1,027
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +0

    Well no kidding.

    Of course the movie CGI designs are going to be more complex than a $20 children's toy. Just like a 1:24 scale model car is in no way as complex as its real life counterpart. And therein lies the problem. You simply can't compare a toy design with a movie prop. I mean, nobody would suggest that the upcoming toys are going to be as flexible as their movie-based counterparts. By that measure, comparing the movie-props with your avg. Alt isn't exactly an objective comparison either.

    And there's no telling what an upscaled (and enhanced) Alt would look like. This aesthetic is so foreign, and so different from the Alt line that it would be a pretty big presumption to assume that the two would be remotely alike. The design choices here go beyond pure necessity. The fact is, if we can get a $20 toy that has as many points of articulation as an Alt, there is no reason to assume that a more complex model with a similar aesthetic couldn't have been developed. Much of what we're seeing in the movie designs is purely a design choice. If you like it, that's great. For me, the designs are flat out ugly.
     
  15. Team Jetfire

    Team Jetfire Pop-POP!

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Posts:
    5,889
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +13
    I find it ironic that your name is Dr Kain, but you have, what seems too be, a terrible cold.

    And while I am generally supportive of the movie, I do not agree with you post in the slightest.

    You say that all these other incarnations of The Transformers suck (which is your opinion, because I, and I'm sure many others, have enjoyed RID and the unicron trilogy quite a bit) and the only ones that are good are related to G1 in some shape or form. But the movie is a new beginning. Not meant to be linked to g1 at all. Sure there are some of the same faces, but on the whole the story is a re-telling. This is very similar to all the new transformers series. They all had Optimus, they all had Megatron, most even had a Prowl, Starscream and other characters with the same likeness.

    The movie will be what it is. An action packed, popcorn movie that may or may not appeal to the general public. What is known for sure is that I will provide internet forum fodder for the fans for years to come…
     
  16. A_U_T_O_B_O_T

    A_U_T_O_B_O_T G1 Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Posts:
    224
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Likes:
    +0
    I was born right at the end of G1 in '87 and I started watching it on VHS as soon I can remember. I also watched Beast Wars and enjoyed that, but now that I'm an adult I can't relate to the more current series, like Energon and Cybertron. That's the reason I would liked to have seen this movie in G1, but it's not a big deal if it isn't. I just don't want it to be overly child friendly.

    IMO I'm not sure how this movie is going to do since I'm not a big fan of Michael Bay. The only movie of his I enjoyed was Armageddon and that was and still is a classic. On another note I don't really like the shots we've seen of Megatron and such. I'm open to anything, like I don't mind the appearance of the characters on Cybertron but this seems kind of ridiculous.

    I'm still going to go and see the movie on it's first day out, no questions asked. But till I see it and the curtain opens I'm still going to be skeptical about it.
     
  17. Prime crotch

    Prime crotch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Posts:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Likes:
    +0
    Like most kids I loved the G1 cartoons but I don't mind that the movie doesn't have the same designs because I'm used and expect movies to have diferent designs. Besides to be fair the G1 Transformers designs are way to old and wouldn't work in a real life movie.
    Also Bay made one of my favorite movies, The Rock, and that movie had great action so I have big hopes for the movie.
     
  18. Darkravager

    Darkravager Zombie Hunter

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2004
    Posts:
    6,293
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +1
    First off, prove to me, completely objectively, that the newer lines suck. Phazer has already said that TF sales have actually been on a steady increase in recent years. Secondly, show me just how the newer shows have tried to "recreate" G1 as you keep saying. I would say the opposite. Rid and the Unicron Trilogy are vastly different from G1. They just have the same names.

    This new movie is the one trying to recreate G1. They said from the beginning that this is going to be based on G1, and people keep comparing it to G1. This movie is trying to recreate what people see Transformers as being. So by your own logic, this movie will suck because it's trying to recreate G1.
     
  19. Lycanthropic Tendencies

    Lycanthropic Tendencies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    527
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Likes:
    +5
    The designs matter in many ways.

    Take the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
    If you've ever seen them in show or comic, you have an idea of the way they act and similar.

    Now find Zulli's take on them.

    They're amazing, but you couldn't easily see them acting the way the show versions do, or the movie versions.
    You couldn't see humans reacting to them in quite the same way.

    It might be similar, but the second you see them, the design, it all seems that much darker.

    I agree that the story is more important, but design sets tone, it makes an impression, it plays on what we see in it and says more in seconds than a movie script ever could.
     
  20. Ops_was_a_truck

    Ops_was_a_truck JOOOLIE ANDREWWWWWS!!!!!!

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Posts:
    11,549
    Trophy Points:
    236
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:
    I am obsessed with smegma!
     

Share This Page