Why I think Transformers needed to evolve

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by *Deathblade, Aug 27, 2006.

  1. *Deathblade

    *Deathblade Well-Known Member

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    I have sat quietly over the last couple of weeks and watched the firestorm going on on pretty much all the TF boards. At first when I saw the designs for bots like BB, starscream and megatron, I initally thought they sucked too. Overall I has not happy with the direction the movie seems to be taking. That being said I find alot of what I have read around the boards to be overly dramatic. "Raping childhoods" is something Freddy Krueger and the Boogey man do, not a corporate company.

    After a few days I did two things a very large portion of the fandom seems unable to do. I sat down and took myself out of a fans shoes and looked at it from NON fan perspective. As such I came to few truths:

    1. This not the 80s, campy things that worked then WILL NOT work now, when people go to a movie these days, they expect a stand alone story that they dont have to know the source material to understand, and to be able to relate to the characters.

    I really think things like sub space, mass shifting..etc simply wont work. I mean even as a kid I didn't get why bumble bee was only slightly taller than spike in robot form, when he could ride around in him in alt mode. Where primes trailer went...etc. The audience will likely reject these things, the same way they rejected all that dragon ball Z fighting in the matrix sequals.

    Humans DO NEED to be in this movie. If all this movie had was 2 hours of CGI robots shooting each other it would flop. Kids AND adults need a frame of reference and something relatable, and humans can be used as a plot device to explain questions people in the audience who never watched transformers will undoubtedly have.

    Secondly on the subject of humans, transformers died out a season after humans were mainly removed from the plot, if you think that had nothing to do with it dying, I really dont know what to say. EVERY hit kid show that followed had some kind of human element to it, be it the main characters were humanoid (thundercats,silverhawks...etc) Every hit kid show NOW still has a strong human element: Pokemon, Digimon, Ninja Turtles, Naruto, Yu gi OH, Card Captors, One Piece,Sonic EX etc. Power rangers has been going strong for over 14 years here in the states, if that doesnt exemplify how relevent the human element is, I dont know what will. (On a separate not Power Rangers toys have been on the shelves for 14 years and it doesnt have NEARLY the collector fanbase TFs have, thats a telling fact in itself)


    2. The second thing I realized is that a movie that panders completely to fans and is slavish to the source material would be a commercial flop, and no one would really enjoy it, even the fans.

    I base this one on a movie the gf and I saw a while back: SILENT HILL. We had 2 very different experiences there.

    While I somewhat enjoyed the movie, she ABSOLUTELY HATED it. She would not let me hear the end of it for the next week about how the movie made no sense. When I thought about it, she had valid points. Things in that movie just APPEARED for no reason. I really couldnt explain WHY the hell Pyramid head was there, or why he just melted away before he killed them. I couldn't explain what the hell those bugs with faces, or the walking flesh bags, or the laughing in the bathroom, or the nurses with no faces were-ALL I could do was say it was in the games. They came across as just convaluted crap in the movie. I also could not explain the transition from normal silent hill to hellish silent hill. The closest I came was a gateway to hell/parallell hell dimension, which she glazed over on.

    Admittedly the movie played out like a 2 hour walk through of the game, and even though I am a fan of the game, I really didnt enjoy the movie of much as tolerate it, and if I had no prior, or just passing knowledge of the series I would have hated it too. There are many things like that in TFs. Simple things like how the TFs even MOVE or TALK(or why they even WOULD considering computers can digitally transmit) have to be redone to make some modicrum of sense, even in a science fiction way-I mean when I picture TF as it was in 1984 translated to live action I get Power rangers, maybe much better looking CGI, but still power rangers.

    Even if this movie was a 2 hour g1 fan wank, people would still hate it, the fandom is simply too divided to agree on anything, and the only thing that would happen would be more of what goes on now-endless circular arguing.


    All in all I will see this movie, and I am certain I will at least enjoy it. There are some things I had to accept to get that frame of mind, and I am sure it applies to many others in the fandom.

    1. Get over yourselves-even though you have bought TFs for many years, you do not own, have any entitlement, or have any authority over the TF property.

    2. New people are going to be brought into the fandom. EMBRACE them, and dont treat them like they are pledges for some exclusive fraternity.

    3. What ever the movie is, it will be. No sense in worrying about a moive nearly a year away. Also what you invision as the perfect TF movie will not corrolate with what someone else does.

    4. You will NOT magically transport back to 1984 and revert to 8 years old in the mobie theater, dont expect for the movie to rekindle your childhood, or you are just setting yourself up for disappointment.


    At the end of the day, I am content to let Bay and DM make the movie, hope that it is something the MASSES can enjoy, that it brings in a whole new generation into the fandom, and even rekindles some of the old generation's love for it.
     
  2. Dalarsco

    Dalarsco Kickback=ROCK

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    There has been a lot of backlash over silly, silly things. People complain about the designs, which I will admit I am not comfortable with either. People were complaining about not using all surviving VAs. Hell, people are even complaining about the lack of Japanese and European cars. None of this matters, becasue none of this matters to the movie being a good MOVIE. Any TF movie that gets made MUST be good as a movie on it's own. Look at Spiderman, Batman Begins, or X-Men. All are great movies even without prior enjoyment of the source material. All these movies got sequels. If you want Trasnformers to become a long-running movie series it is more important that it be a good movie than a good adaptation. And the only things that matter in deciding wether it is a good movie are the script, acting, and effects. The script needs good dialogue and good plot (The only reason I disagree with the designs is that they make a plot I don't like more likely.). The actors need to take it seriously in serious scenes. The effects need to look real and cool at the same time. If that happens, then this will be a good movie that you will enjoy watching regardless of the changes made from past mythos.
     
  3. zxmagus

    zxmagus Member

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    I think people that say that transformers has to be changed inorder to be successful are kinda ignoring a detail. Transformers have had a 20 plus year run now there must have been some spark of creativity that brought so many people to enjoy it in the first place.

    Now a lot of people are feeling that some of that original spark that made them like the show in the first place is getting ignored and replaced with generic sci-fi. They can't be blamed too much for this because we havnt really seen anything that has made a lot of us think ok this is different but their adding a new genius to it all we have to go on is evil bug aliens.
     
  4. Dalarsco

    Dalarsco Kickback=ROCK

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    Exactly, it's been around for 20 years. Most people don't want to see exactly what they saw as kids up on the big screen. They want to see something new that harkens back to when they were a kid, but doesn't have the stupid little thigns that they didn't care about when they were a kid but probably thought were silly even back then. The organic webbing in Spiderman is a great example of this. Even as a kid I thought that the explanation for the webbing was illogical. Spiders don't consiously mix the chemicals for the webbing in thier bodies. He wouldn't learn from the bite how to make webbing like that. Any webbing abiltiy he got from the bite would be gaining spinnarettes. If you must have aritficial webbing then use the Ultimate Spiderman version where the webs were something he had been working on before becoming Spiderman in order to finnish his fathers work. A great story, but in a movie it's a much more efficient use of time to make it organic and then move on.
     
  5. Spartan-117

    Spartan-117 Well-Known Member

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    No one wants retarded 80's shit like the Golden Lagoon or Autobot Basketball, all people want is to see the core elements that made Transformers cool remain. Humans are only "needed" because it would be ridiculous to expect people not to notice giant robots blowing stuff up. There are plenty of movies that do without actual humans but are still big hits. All because the non-human characters are given human quirks and presonalities that we relate well to and enjoy seeing.
    The lack of humans didn't kill G1, what killed G1 was no Prime, no Starscream, no Bumblebee etc etc etc. They took the characters that everyone had known and loved, killed them or just ignored them and inserted some of the most bland and retarded characters possible. Ultra Magnus was a joke after the movie, Springer and Arcee could have been left out and no one would care because their personalities are so one dimensional, Kup wasn't much better, Wheelie was just a bad idea and as much as I like Rodimus a lot of people hated him for replacing Optimus. Children cried in theaters because Optimus Prime was dead, not because Spike had grown up and was wearing silly clothes.
     
  6. Random Autobot

    Random Autobot Soviet Kanukistani

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    It's only a small minority of the fandom (vocal, yes but small) that are screaming "ZOMGOHNOESSSSSITSNOTTEHGEEWUNN!!!!11". The majority of the fans who are upset about what's going on know that this will not be "g1 reborn", but they can also see that this movie is not staying true to some of the vital aspects of "The Transformers".

    The changes we're seeing don't add up when you compare them with the reasons given for said change. Example:

    "Mass shifting can't happen, we want these transformers to be realistic, we have to believe that they could exist in this world, so no mass shifting"

    Ok, I agree completely. However, mass shifting makes as much sense as having the robots metal auto parts shatter and shift into so many tiny pieces so as to make the alt. mode unrecognizable in robot mode. How exactly do these pieces seamlessly fit together in vehicle mode without a million little panel lines showing on a cars hood? Lemme guess: Advanced alien technology!

    Transformers, in every incarnation, have all bared parts of their alt modes while in their robot forms. You can tell Optimus Prime is a truck. You can tell Starscream is a jet, you can tell that tank megatron ( I always thught the gun thing was lame) is a fucking tank. Take a look at Bumblebee, and tell me he couldn't just as easily be a speed boat rather than a camaro.

    The bot's themselves are a huge fuck up because they don't carry any of the classic aesthetic that we've seen throughout the last 20 years of Transformers. Yes, they need joints and elbows and knees that move, but they don't need completely exposed limbs under random small panels of metal plating that leave them looking skinny and useless. The current comic artwork includes the joints that we're talking about here, but still provides fully armoured chests, backs, arms and legs. They look tough. These things look like you could find points on their bodies that you could shoot bullets through and have them come out the other end. They look like generic robots, not Transformers.

    I don't expect them to look exactly like their G1 selves, but I expect them to look like transformers. These robots do not. Prime looks like a terminator with optimus primes head stuck on it. Bumblebee looks like Johnny 5, and Megatron looks like the bastard lovechild of Treebeard and Sauron. let's not even talk about what they did to poor Starscream.

    Finally, lets take a look at the script. The basic plot is fine, but it is filled with horrible human dialogue, infantile humour, and big action scenes. We don't get to connect, or see any character development from any bot other that Prime and Bumblebee. Starscream has two lines. Two. Megatron shows up in the final act and takes on the role of "Generic supervillain number 5". He's not megatron, he's a boss in the final level of Doom. The humans are developed quite well, but at the expense of almost every Transformer, which is ludicrous, bad storytelling.

    This film is doing exactly what Batman Begins, Spiderman and X-Men didn't do. Making grand changes that make no sense to focus on the cool viasuals and action scenes while throwing plot and nuanced storytelling out the window. It's becoming a typical Michael Bay film, and that is why most of us are upset.
     
  7. Dalarsco

    Dalarsco Kickback=ROCK

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    Have you watched G1 recently? I wouldn't call any of the characters anything BUT one dimensional. Prime and Starscream were cool, but they didn't have very much character range. A flat character is a flat character, no matter how cool that defining personality trait is. And Ultra Magnus was a joke from the moment he uttered the eternal line "I can't deal with that now." I do, however, agree that the core of TFs is that the robots are the real stars and do behave in a very human way. The humans are just needed to provide a size comparison so that the size of the robots is readily apparent.
     
  8. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Villain

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    We have financial authoritah. As do the parents of the children buying tickets.

    It's difficult to embrace stupidity.

    Exactly, if the film sucks, then all the blame can and will be dumped on those who did invision it.

    I'd like to know what knowledge you have that backs up this assertion that I will be disappointed. Have you already seen the completed movie?
     
  9. Satan Santa

    Satan Santa Knows you've been naughty

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    Deathblade, that may have been the first pro-movie message I've read that wasn't all "stop bitching, you hater".

    Thanks for taking the time to reason it out. I totally get your points.

    I still wish the designs actually looked like Transformers, and I still seriously doubt they won't butcher the characters, but I think you've managed to soften my rage a tad :) 
     
  10. NIDARAM12

    NIDARAM12 Robot art guy

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    Why I think Transformers needed to evolve?

    Because the last three toylines have looked exactly the same. So much so that you could take ANY toy from Armada, Energon, and Cybertron and rearrange it into another line and it would all mesh well.
     
  11. Seth Buzzard

    Seth Buzzard R.I.P. Buzzbeak Content Contributor

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  12. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Villain

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    Fair enough, but there's nothing in there about embracing. It just says to not be harsh on noobs, to which I have complied.
     
  13. Satan Santa

    Satan Santa Knows you've been naughty

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    He was saying the movie was stupid - not the poster.

    Seriously, can't we have one conversation around here without a mod stepping in, making something out of nothing, and then wagging their finger at us like we're all in kindergarten?


     
  14. nOObiE do0

    nOObiE do0 noobious maximus

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    Hehe i was actually thinking the same thing.
    I actually asked myself why not use alternators...
    But, i dont think they would look good in a life-like setting. =/

    They would be too hollow under edges,Backs and other areas.
    But seriously they can at least make sure they have some type of homage.

    I havent read the script and i hope what peole are saying about it is maybe a really early draft.
    Im hoping Megs/Starscream would get reformatted 20 min into the movie.
    I's sure we can all agree that at least Bumblebee should talk(again i have to go with what i read on forums)

    So far i dig all the Transformers except 2.

    A live action movie needs to be different,They shouldnt look like toys walking around.
    But damn......

    Im so torn right now im rambling. :drunk 
     
  15. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    Prime's head, colors, windows, etc., Bumblebee's "horns" and colors, Jazz's visor... They're trying. It may not be enough for some of us, but they are trying.
     
  16. nOObiE do0

    nOObiE do0 noobious maximus

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    i meant for the decepticons.
    I think they are doing fine for the autobots....Its the decepticons im woried about...even though blackout/incinerator looks hot.
     

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