Why does bay always have to have that one real cringe worthy scene?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by OmegaPrime22, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    You're asking why people take issue where three of the main characters argue about whether or not the age gap (and the young age) of one of the protagonists makes a romantic relationship with another inappropriate, and the older paramour has a laminated card to show a legal loophole that makes their relationship legal (without addressing the moral implications of it) that he physically carries on his person for just such an occasion? And that this scene is basically one of the most important (read: only) in developing how these three characters relate to each other (and serves as the starting point for the common "well we have to learn to work together for the third person" arc)?

    Different strokes for different folks I guess.
     
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  2. BarricadeLives

    BarricadeLives i'm you! i'm your shadow!

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    & yet critical darlings (the marvel films) have a bevy of ridiculous childish humor in it but gets a pass..it's strange
     
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  3. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally

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    So, you don't like this scene, or this law? I don't like this law, but the scene is normal, it fits the Movie, which tells, how little actual moral remain in this world. The Movie doesn't justify the law - it laughs on it.
     
  4. Galvatross

    Galvatross Swamp Lord Shrek-traoridinairre! Veteran

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    Probably because every other Transformers series in existence has cringe-worthy, ogre-the-top, campy stuff in it, and Bay and company realized it and ran with it.

    The history of the brand's fandom is basically fans cherry picking what ridiculous content is stupid and what is kosher. "Yeah, the stupid dialogue and cringe-worthy scene in my favorite show/episode/movie is so superior to the stupid dialogue and cringe-worthy scenes in what you like." Earth to fans: No, it really isn't.

    There is no doubt in my mind that Bay understands Transformers better than a sizable chunk of this fandom. Heck, I'm not convinced most fans even want no more cringe-worthy moments. I'm good either way because I know Transformers is ridiculous, and I'm perfectly content with that.
     
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  5. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    The Marvel films, by and large, have child friendly banter as per their source material. Some of them do over do it, Guardians 2 has got some cringe inducing dick jokes that really could have stayed home.
     
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  6. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    I don't understand how that's a conclusion you could possibly draw from what I said.

    The scene is not... normal, nor is it mature, as you've previously stated. If it's telling of how little actual morals remain in this world, that's because the people who created Age of Extinction decided to make light of exploitative relationships, not because of the existence of a legal precedent that's designed to spare people in a very specific set of conditions from prosecution/punishment for a serious offense, in keeping with the spirit, rather than the letter of the overall law.

    The main internal conflict (as opposed to the external conflict of basically not getting killed by shadowy agents or cybertronians) for Cade is that he has to overcome is accepting that his daughter is growing up and he needs to be okay with with her relationship, but that kind of falls flat when what's developed is that her boyfriend is so well aware that their relationship is going to be viewed as inappropriate that he carries around a legal defense on a laminated card in his wallet, and THAT'S his initial response to her father's objections (rather than, say, what Tessa does, to establish that they met in high school and this relationship has been going on for years). I feel like that response would be a pretty reasonable red flag to a lot of parents. The scene does a bad job of helping the audience understand Shane's feelings and identify with him, and basically gets people on the side of Cade's internal conflict that he's supposed to be overcoming. If that kind of characterization is supposed to fit the movie... well actually I don't really disagree with you on that.

    I can't think of any other movie where a "good guy" is accused of what's basically a sex crime and responds with "well actually I'm legally in the clear, see?" and where the audience is supposed to be sympathetic with them as a result, so I don't get why you'd describe it as normal.
     
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  7. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally

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    Yes, it is. Because this Movie is extremelly realistic. You're wrong, considering Shane as a "good" guy. Neither he, nor Tessa, nor Lucas, nor Joshua Joyce aren't good characters. The only positive character is Cade. The clear message of this Movie is there are very little genuinelly fair, compassionate people in this world. And those, who belong to this type, are usually poor, haven't stable work and established place in the society. Many people, except the closest ones, consider them as naive idiots. The same with villains - there are not so many genuinelly evil people, who can easily deal with conscience and step through any moral rule. But the majority of people are "grey". They aren't really bad, because they don't break the law, but they aren't good, because they don't follow the moral. They just care only about themselves and in the best case about their families, like animals. Remember Joshua Joyce? Is he a villain? He didn't kill anyone, even didn't ordered. KSI workers were melting bodies of already killed TFs and thought, that they were Decepticons. But Joyce knew, that Attinger's people are hunting down the Autobots, that he dealed with Lockdown, etc. But he didn't anything to stop it. He deceived people too. Unlike Transformers, who are in war for centures and have to make a choice, on what side they are, humans don't hurry with it, or don't decide at all. So, Shane is not a good guy, he is just a guy trying to survive.
     
  8. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    Is this some kind of joke? Transformers isn't Fallout or S.T.A.L.K.E.R. so this shithead wasn't trying to survive anything other than not getting nicked by the rozzers for having an implied sexual relationship with someone who is technically underage. Sure he's trying to survive when he fell in with Autobots and Cade proper but something tells me that laminated get out of jail free card in his wallet has been there for a lot longer.

    Even if Tessa wasn't underage, he'd still be a fucking douche canoe because he's an arrogant and smarmy shit-heel without the intellect or charisma of someone like Tony Stark to back it up.
     
  9. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally

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    I tired of people, who read only the last words in my posts. It is obviously you watches movies by the same way.
     
  10. inturnmike

    inturnmike Well-Known Member

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    I think the point of this thread is.. was a scene like the r+J law scene REALLY necessary? Could it have been avoided? And, do you get a weird vibe during watching the movie because that scene is in it?

    For me, the answers to all of those questions is YES! (hence, cringe-worthy)... It could have been completely removed from the movie and nobody would have been the wiser, AND the movie would have benefited from us not having to be like wait what are they talking about? Why does he have that card? What does any of this have to do with TRANSFORMERS? My issue with ALL of the Bay movies, is that he includes so much of this kind of BS, it completely kills the movies for me. That, and all of the name-swapping, color-changing, and TF designs, of course. If you called these movies Bionicles 1-5, and TFs never existed.. they would have all made a lot more sense.

    I remember wanting to walk OUT of 2007's movie when the happy time and peeing scenes happened. I have LOVED TFs since I was like 7 years old.. and felt embarrassed that was the movie we finally got.
     
  11. Beastwarsfan95

    Beastwarsfan95 Aspie :)

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    A lot like the prequel Star Wars films, the Transformer movies tend to have their fair share of cringy dialog:

    TF1: The “Sam’s happy time” bit.

    ROTF: too many to count.

    DoTM: Deep Wang

    AOE: “my face I saw my warrant” and “You see my face your life is done.” Were both cringy to me.

    TLK: I only watched this once once, so I can’t really recall any offhand.

    Can a cringy line or two break a movie? No, but it can break the tone and flow of the film and pull you out of the moment.
     
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  12. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally

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    For me only TLK crosses the border (because it has many other problems), even ROTF didn't. Seriosly, you're matured men, why you are like greenhouse plants?
     
  13. Beastwarsfan95

    Beastwarsfan95 Aspie :)

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    Male? Yes. Mature? Ehehe...

    Jokes aside though, what is “like greenhouse plants” even suppose to mean? Is that suppose to be some kind of weird metaphor or something? And I think that maturity should make it easier to notice how cringy some of the movie dialog can be. Even as someone who likes the original trilogy, I can admit it has some real teeth-curling lines. But the last two films really take the cake, IMO.
     
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  14. uruseiranma

    uruseiranma Well-Known Member

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    Bay definitely has a strange immature joking style that he seems to think is funny.

    One 'was that really necessary' scene came in the film "Pain and Gain."

    Tony Shalhoub's character has been roughed up and is in a hospital recovering. He has to share a room with a guy, who at one point, gives what I can only describe as a 'Jackson Pollock meets Taco Bell' art exhibition across a bathroom wall. I guess we're supposed to have a good laugh that Shalhoub's roommate has explosive diarrhea...but nope, I just rolled my eyes at that.
     
  15. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    I think there’s some nuances lost in translation here, because I have no merry idea what that similie is meant to mean.
     
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  16. Toddimus Prime

    Toddimus Prime Well-Known Member

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    I've had similar reactions that many of you all have had with these films over the years concerning their moments of humor, and to be quite honest, sometimes they are indeed cringe-worthy, then other times, they strike me as very funny.

    I loved the humor in the first one, especially the "lubricating" scene...I don't know why it strikes me as so funny, I guess I just love John Turturro, and I usually love his reactions in these films...

    I'll admit I can be pretty buttoned-up, as it were, but I also know I have an immature streak, too. So some of these scenes everybody complains about are really no big deal to me, I guess. The only scene I can't really get past is the one in ROTF, when Wheelie starts humping Mikaela's leg. *groan* The rest can be chalked-up to typical weird human behavior...it's like someone else said, when they said not every character can be a relatable, heroic type like Cade Yeager,...that's just reality. Just like the scene with Shane, Tessa, and Cade...I don't necessarily care for it. In fact, I used to despise it and found it creepy, out-of-place, and just odd, like someone was trying to make some weird point or something. But you know what? As I have reflected on it over time, I've realized that's exactly the kind of thing I'd imagine some teenage guys with a chip on their shoulder would pull as a big "F-You" to anyone that might give them grief or flak over whom he was dating. And, as a father of a little girl myself, I can definitely understand the resistance of a protective father and what a punk like Shane would bring out in him. It sets-up an interesting dynamic and plot device that I actually enjoyed in AOE. At the end of the day, people are just weird in real life, and that's mostly reflected in these films...

    I don't know...it's all relative and what somebody might see as offensive or off-putting. Different strokes, I guess. Frankly I used to be alot more uptight about this stuff, but as I get older...I guess I've just mellowed some and not really bothered by it, unless it's something jarringly out-of-place. I can't quite think of any other examples offhand in the films, and I'm sure there are many I've forgotten. .
     
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  17. BarricadeLives

    BarricadeLives i'm you! i'm your shadow!

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    really dont get why the r+j scene & devestator's balls triggers so many people...i found the driller/building scene & starscream's death much, much more offensive!
     
  18. Galvatross

    Galvatross Swamp Lord Shrek-traoridinairre! Veteran

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    Great post! I want to highlight certain things though.

    Your most important point is that real-life people are indeed weird. They think, say, and do things that are truly bizarre. I find real life people I know to be far more like those in the Bay films than the "normal" people in many other films.

    And I never thought the Romeo and Juliet scene was to show that their relationship was perfectly fine in every way. On the contrary, Shane is supposed to be a cocky douche, and Cade's reaction to him in that scene was that of a normal father.

    In fact, the more I think about it, the more Shane actually fits in with one of the film's main themes: You gotta look at all the junk and see the treasure. Shane may be a cocky douche, but he's not all bad. There's good inside of him, just like there's good in all of the film's protagonists, robot and human, however rough-around-the-edges the bulk of them may be,
     
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  19. BarricadeLives

    BarricadeLives i'm you! i'm your shadow!

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    just watched wonder woman...wow...so that's what passes for a "great movie" these days? shameful...it was ok but grossly overrated in my opinion..just wanted to point out that there was a bunch of cringe-worthy scenes...shall we start with the awkward penis joke scene? & the dragged on dialogue about sex? no, no..this is high art folks..bay is the problem :rolleyes: 
     
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  20. Chopperface

    Chopperface All the Stars Are Closer

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    None of the Bay films will ever be half of the film Wonder Woman was.

    Anyway, there have been plenty of Transformers moments across the franchise that made me feel dumber. But the Bay films unfortunately do it far more consistently than others. A jackass keeping a card explaining why he can fuck a minor just... ew. Simmons in a thong. Sam and his parents in DOTM. For all the good things Bay can do, he has to step back and use the mental abilities of the dumbest dog to make several of his scenes. I remember the childish glee he displayed on the ROTF DVD features when he proposed a pair of wrecking balls.

    Blegh.
     
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