Why do they depict the decepticons that way?

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by LordShockwave, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. LordShockwave

    LordShockwave Harold of Power.

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    What I'm saying is why do they have to depict the decepticons 100% just evil monsters that want to do bad? I mean...why not give them a goal they want to reach that they just are trying to reach it the wrong way but they believe they are doing what is right. Sorry if this is confusing. For example, in any war on earth there are 2 (or more) sides that both fight for what they believe in or believe in doing.

    Take the civil war for example. The north believed that slavery should not be allowed where the south thought it should be allowed. Both sides thought what they were doing was right. And both sides thought their enemy was doing wrong.

    Why can't they make the decepticons a more 3-dementional side of the war. In many cases in TF: prime, the decepticons show that they themselves know what they are doing is wrong and they're doing it just to be evil. Like when megatron is telling orion that the autobots are evil but he was just "deceiving" him. So this shows that megatron knows that the autobots are good and they are evil? Another instance was when megatron tells soundwave "orion's great sense of right and wrong will kick in soon". So megatron knows what he is doing is wrong? When is there really any practical instance where one side of a war is doing what they're doing just to be evil? I think the decepticons should be fighting for something that the autobots don't believe in and vice-versa.

    Wouldn't it make it a more 3-dementional "we get to see both sides of the story" war?
     
  2. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    Megatron just knows that it would be pretty damn hard to convince Orion that his side is right when he killed his own planet and is basically chasing Autobots around the galaxy to murder them out of pure spite. But I have no doubt he thinks his cause is right, after all he was a revolutionary fighting for the lower Cybertronain castes once.
     
  3. LordShockwave

    LordShockwave Harold of Power.

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    true
     
  4. Puck Hockey

    Puck Hockey Well-Known Member

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    Peace through tyranny. And those who side with Megatron who aren't fodder do well. Megatron grew up oppressed and tried diplomacy but Orion stole his spotlight and incidentally went against him.

    Megatron referring to Orion's conscience of "right and wrong" is just him saying Prime will come to his usual senses. Megatron doesn't mind being the bad guy if he gets the "peace" he's working towards.

    Also, Breakdown showed the smallest hint of doubt in "Operation: Breakdown."
     
  5. Ceasar121

    Ceasar121 Wants a Toxitron repaint!

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    Why? Because writers (and the sponsors that back the shows) usually have a limited mind. They cannot fathom the idea that a show doesn't have a true protagonist and antagonist... one side MUST be good and one side MUST be evil.

    I personally wish this concept was explored more in Transformers, I thought that was truly a missed opportunity in the movies, of making it so that the Cons and Bots just were, and no side was explicitly shown as being totally good or totally evil. They had me excited for a minute when Orci and Kurtzman talked about Starscream believing Optimus and Megatron to be wrong... I think this is one of the ideas lost during the poorly writing thrown together ROTF.

    Alas, I digress. Cartoons are based on a protagonist antagonist relationship. Also, I think Prime features some Cons that aren't totally evil, Breakdown and Starscream don't seem to be totally evil, particularly Starscream who seems more self preservation oriented. Also, based on some of the upcoming eps descriptions, we may see an Autobot who's not totally good.
     
  6. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    Really I think people overstate that "We must have two heroic sides" thing far too much, I think we can have a deep, interesting conflict while having one unambiguously evil side and one unambiguously good side.

    Portray one side as originally with good intentions, but now so lost on their goals that they forget how monstrous they've become, or show they eventually lost all humanity while they fought, or show how messed up their heads is, by having a completely different set of morals, or...

    The possibilities are endless.

    That said, I think Megatron is kind of a Nihilist, he has no faith in morals, which is why he can say that so casually.
     
  7. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    Megatron thinks he's doing a nobel task through his methods. He figured that by using violence and crulety he'll bring order to the universe. Breakdown seems to be a little questionable about his place in the Decepticons from Operation Breakdown. Hopefully it'll be explore more of Breakdown's thoughts later on. He seemed to be reluctiante in kill off Bulkhead at first in the sam episode. Breakdonw seems to be the Armada Demolsher in Prime and if they at least bring more development to him that'll be good.

    Or else have a Vehicon who actually wants to help the Autobots and trys to earn his place among them either way.
     
  8. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    No he doesn't.

    He gives zero fucks about his planet and people, he just wants to rule the universe. Hell, he turned all the dead of Cybertron into zombies. He has no noble goal, no plan of peace. He's just an evil asshole who wants to make everyone's lives but his miserable because he loves it.

    Why does every villain have to be "misguided" or "misunderstood" or have a warped sense of "nobility?" Why can't they just be great, evil bastards?
     
  9. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    It may be possible that Megatron's own arrogence made him to abodon those virtues or at least forgot them. Remember what Optimus and Ratchet saiad about Megatron originally made the revolt to stand up for the chaste system and maybe deep down Megatron belived that but his arrogence and hatred consumed him to the core later on just saying.
     
  10. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    I doubt it. You don't just "forget" your values, not as quickly as he did. In fact the flashback outright shows Megatron turning evil, red eyes and sharp teeth, after Optimus becomes a Prime.
     
  11. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    I may be wrong but either way his own arrogence and hatred consumed him in the end that's what I"m pointing out
     
  12. optronix72

    optronix72 Autobot

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    I always thought of the Decepticons as a kind of," might makes right " type. Megatron may have started out with a noble ideal that snowballed into a major power trip he has never came down from. Cybertronians with similar traits are drawn to or fear him and fall in line. That sort of thing.
     
  13. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Indeed, and I don't see what's so wrong with having the villain just be motivated by arrogance and hatred.
     
  14. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    Just as long if it's done right then nothing's wrong. I have no problems with it myself but it seems that most people may have other ideas.
     
  15. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    I've seen (dumb )people say that villains not figthing for a misguided cause aren't "realistic" and that every real villain believes they're right.

    Ignore the fact that, you know, right now you have terrorists like Bin Laden in the middle of the desert completely aware of the people they're killing and the brainwashing they're doing ruining the life of every single mook under them while living in mansions.

    Ignore druglords that have never used a grain of cocaine in their life because they know it's a brain and life poison but feel no remorse in ruining everybody else just to keep their empires trucking on and on.
     
  16. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    I was gonna make a joke sarcastically making up justification for those examples, but then I realised that even fake defending of terrorists and drug dealers is stupid.

    Yeah, I'm just gonna follow your lead and call those types of people dumb and go do something else.
     
  17. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    I like a villain with depth. By that same token, sometimes a plain ol' simply evil villain can be fun too.

    Darth Vader = depth
    Jason Voorhees = shallow

    But I like them both. For the Decepticons, I would like them to get some more depth than what's been afforded them over the decades, but one thing you should never forget is that these shows are aimed at kids 7 and up. This is a children's cartoon, and with children's heroes and villains, you always want to err on the side of clarity about who's bad and who's good.

    Now the movies, with their older target audience, could actually tackle a more complex take on the heroes and villains, but chooses not to do so.
     
  18. ang3l3s

    ang3l3s Sixshot

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    Since it's for kids the lines have to be very distinct though a sixshotcharacter with a turnover would be a great lesson for kids.
     
  19. kaiserlisk

    kaiserlisk THIS PLEASES GAGA

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    ...


    I wanna see this. All the Vehicons seem to possess some degree of individuality and personality. It shouldn't be too unbelievable to have at least one or few individuals question the methods and goals of his faction.
     
  20. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    It's kind of the curse of cartoons that writers worry too much that kids will need characters who are clearly good guys and clearly bad guys.

    Even with things like X-Men cartoons they tend toward Magneto as the clearly evil guy unlike the comic books where you have to wonder if you were a mutant who's side you be on.

    Although Avatar the Last Airbender did a great job of playing with good and evil as characters who at first seemed clearly evil weren't that bad after all. So many nice shades of gray instead of characters just in black or white.
     

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