Why didn't Prime become Ultra Magnus?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by acollier, Feb 9, 2008.

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  1. acollier

    acollier Well-Known Member

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    I was just discussing the mass slaughter of G1 TFs in the 86 movie with some friends and the Prime/Megatron issue came up.

    Megatron became Galvatron so how come they didn't do the same with Prime. Ultra Magnus was in essence an upgraded Prime (Powered Convoy in Japan). Why not just upgrade Prime into the ol' red, white and blue?

    Parents saying "you've already got A Prime, so there!"?

    It would have been far cooler (the ensuing mythos aside) if Prime hadn't died and had gone on to fight Galvatron in a souped-up body.

    Alex
     
  2. Ravenxl7

    Ravenxl7 W.A.F.F.L.E.O.

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    I'm probably completely off, here, but, I think it's because Megatron didn't actually die, he was left to die, but was found by Unicron and upgraded for his services. Prime on the other hand did die, so there really wasn't a point in upgrading him. Like I said, I'm just quessing. I've only ever seen the first three episodes and the movie of G1.
     
  3. Lord Of Tetris

    Lord Of Tetris Well-Known Member

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    I can understand what acollier is talking about. To some extent, what he asks is reasonable, but I think the 1986 movie did the right choice. At least one of the leaders had to die, or else the war wouldn't have as much impact.

    To raise a counter-example, take a look at the Armada/Energon/Cybertron series where every character and their sister upgrades into a repaint halfway through the series. Remember how meaningless that was?
     
  4. acollier

    acollier Well-Known Member

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    Good point. There is less jeopardy if everyone simply "changes their suit" every other minute. I wonder if there every WAS the intention of simply upgrading him.

    Actually, the only upgrade I ever liked in the whole TF universe were those in the 86 movie.
     
  5. Locke

    Locke Team Vanguard

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    This is really an excellent point that I hadn't really considered before.
     
  6. Switch625

    Switch625 "Up, up, and away!"

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    Why sell one toy when you can sell two?
     
  7. a person

    a person Is not amused.

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    Wow, you could be onto something. I never really thought about this until you mentioned it.
     
  8. Anti Spark

    Anti Spark It'S DUB Or Nothing!

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    I believe that was planned but later changed at one point.

    There is a pic floating around that shows Megatron Galvatron Prime and Ultra Magnus fighting.

    There was a somewhat similar argument on the pic.
     
  9. NGW

    NGW Rawr

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    Not even those in BW?
     
  10. Nerdling

    Nerdling Plastic Crack Addict

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    In the Scramble City ep, Prime and Magnus fight alongside each other. Hot Rod isnt around and Megatron is still the Decepticon leader. It would have made no sense.

    [​IMG]

    Magnus was always Obi-Wan to Hot Rod's weaksauce Luke.
     
  11. Spekkio

    Spekkio Master of War

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    Hot Rod / Rodimus Prime has another aspect that might be part of this whole dance - the youth factor. Some writers of youth-oriented animation are under the impression that kids connect to a series better if one or more of the characters is a kid too. And for all intents and purposes, HR/RP was a kid.

    Another point: Switch625 said "why sell one toy, when you can sell two?" He's on the money, but it's more like "why sell one toy, when you can sell three?" There was Ultra Magnus, Hot Rod, and Rodimus Prime. Hell, you could say four if you count Targetmaster Hot Rod.
     
  12. NGW

    NGW Rawr

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    I wouldn't bring Scramble City into this since, IIRC, it was made after the movie for Japan who didn't get the film until much later.
     
  13. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    FYI Powered Convoy was a Diaclone toy.

    If you think that armor was made for Transformers , Optimus Prime upgrading you are wrong.

    Diaclone and Microman despite being sources of the TF toys does not mean one can retroactively deduce that the Transformer toys, characters, storyline came before.

    It's like saying Gobots came before Machine Robo.

    Here's a commercial of Powered Convoy.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2016
  14. acollier

    acollier Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Redwolf, was that directed at me? I wasn't sure.

    Yeah, I know that Powered Convoy came from the Diaclone line before Transformers. Pity that the chest/car had the wheels taken out. I put my Valkyrie 1/48 pilots in mine. But thanks for the info:thumbs2: 

    I just meant that if they had the rights to THAT particular toy AND Prime was a guaranteed seller, why didn't they keep Prime around and upgrade him. But there are alot of great points on this thread suggest why they didn't.

    Would still love to know if they intended to do this at an early stage.
     
  15. acollier

    acollier Well-Known Member

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    I'm kind of "hmmm. aaaaah." on the BW. I like the concept more than I like the actual show.
     
  16. godsenddeath

    godsenddeath . TFW2005 Supporter

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    An interview with Flint Dille (Who wrote the G.I.Joe cartoon and movie) said that Prime's death was something Hasbro pushed for after Duke's death was discussed.

    This makes me wonder if they originally intended to use the Powered Convoy mold as an upgraded Prime rather than a new character.

    It could explain why Rodimus Prime was such a lackluster toy. (Lack of time.)

    Perhaps i'm reading too much into it however.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2008
  17. Severus

    Severus Curmudgeon TFW2005 Supporter

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    That's a very interesting question. After all, the mold was there from Diaclone before they even designed Hot Rod and such. My complete speculation is that the decision making process went something like this.

    * Observation that there's a problem with having sold toys of all of the main characters and of the necessity of radically changing the line in order to keep profits up.
    * Transformers is way too successful to just spin off the new series without explaining what happened to the old guys. The decision is made to "make lemonade" and go with a big movie to make tons of money.
    * They do some design work on the movie. One of the things they want to include is the Ultra Magnus mold, presumably as an upgrade to Prime.
    * Scripts are written. At some point a script is written that calls for killing off Prime and starting a new guy. They like it, and continue development. They decide to use the UM mold for UM.
    * Continuing design on the movie has them going with futuristic car models for all of the new line stuff. UM is left in because they like him.

    I think it's also a good question as to why the UM mold wasn't just the original Optimus Prime. Maybe they wanted to keep the two leaders on a comparable size, since there were so many more Autobots anyway.
     
  18. Foster

    Foster Super Mod

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    I think they underestimated the loyalty of kids to the Optimus Prime character. I'm sure they thought kids would be just as interested in Magnus and the other new characters. As we know now, the movie characters were not as well received be fans of the series pre-movie. And Hasbro hasn't kept Prime off of shelves for very long ever since.
     
  19. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    Also, it's worth noting that characters dying, being replaced, or upgraded to new forms/bodies was mostly a TOTALLY NEW CONCEPT for Transformers at that time, and the reactions influenced how Hasbro handled things from then on - such as more new versions of old characters, like Goldbug, PM Optimus, Pretender classics, and a mess of Action Masters, not to mention how nearly all later lines have an Optimus and a Megatron.
     
  20. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Hot rod is offscreen, Ultra magnus is not Optimus Prime or We would still get Prime painted in White and Blue. Well actually i do like that? but still.
     
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