Why did the critcs like TF1 better than AOE?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Dmhead, Mar 31, 2015.

  1. Smashs

    Smashs Internet: Pure Truth Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

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    Enough bickering, guys.

    Accept that this is an impasse, and move on.
     
  2. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Lighter of Darkest Hours

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    You have defeated yourself with this post. Bumblebee was already with Sam all that time.
     
  3. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    Yes, yes you did. This is how you explained Optimus knowing the glasses were important:

    Optimus at no point should have had access to the top secret files as the movie presented it.

    Thank you for proving my point. People simple absolutely refuse to believe TF1 has any faults. Even though everything you just said contradicts the entire plot of TF1.

    TF1 goes to great lengths to demonstrate how difficult the Sector 7 files are to obtain. Blackout had to lay waste to an entire military facility and Frenzy had to hack into the most secure airplane on the planet in order to access the files. But how did Optimus know about them? "There's a number of ways that information could be passed off."

    And that's OK with you? That the movie sets up how difficult it is for these files to be accessed, but at a certain point "there's a number of ways they could be passed off"? That doesn't strike you as bad screenwriting? Because it sure does to me.


    (this was being written before the Mod comment).
     
  4. Digilaut

    Digilaut I'm Mary Poppins, y'all!

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    Well, you did try to boil down my post into 'that's your opinion', so that's where that's coming from. ;) 

    My point is: they're not of equal measure. I do full agree with you that, TF1 being the first helps in it being seen more favorable of the two, but even then AOE is worse than TF1. Make of that what you will (is TF1 good and AOE bad? Or are both movies bad and one is just worse than the other?)

    Yes, TF1 has the same type of problems as AOE. But AOE amplifies all those problems TF1 had.

    Yes...I can? Because shots are better, acting is better, plot is better constructed, timing/pacing is better, attention to set dressing is better, etc. etc.

    You may like Trolls 2 better still, however. Because again: fun =/= quality.
     
  5. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Lighter of Darkest Hours

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    Prove that objectively though. Just saying it's better because it's better is not an explanation.
     
  6. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    But see, to me they are.

    I've got rational reasons to think they are, as I'm sure you've got rational reasons to think they aren't. It does come down to opinion, really. And yours is obviously as valid as mine.
     
  7. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    I'm not saying Transformers was a well-written film by any means, frankly I agree with you, but the point I was trying to make is that while there is no actual certifiable logic behind some things even in a sci-fi film, what those details are end up being just secondary points quickly glossed over by the film like a tour guide at some museum, taking you through an exhibit about some anicent pharoh guy who was found buried with a mystical tablet that supposedly brings inanimate things to life somehow but the exact means of how it's supposed to do that remain a mystery and oh look here's an Easter Island head, etc.

    Pick a film apart, and the plot will always have a loophole somewhere because things always have to have events go a specific way by pure chance for the plot to proceed, even if it means defying all logic and reason, but if done in a smart, subtle way nobody will notice. Example: in TFTM 1986, if Rodimus hadn't been an idiot and tried to help Optimus - getting him fatally wounded and Megatron being allowed to escape alive - then it would have been a far different film as then Unicron wouldn't make Galvatron and the others as his heralds to eliminate the Matrix bearers and ensure Unicron would be unchallenged in destroying Cybertron. Prime would also still be alive, meaning no Rodimus Prime, either.

    I only mentioned it because it was included with some DVD releases, as it stands the entire side-content of the expanded movieverse is a convoluted clusterfuck of contadiction now, anyway, so the relevance is as questionable, I'll admit :lol 

    But the AllSpark didn't seem to have a problem with making Transformers out of non-Transformium stuff, like Dispensor, or the Nokia-bot. Hell, it just zaps Frenzy's head and he regrows his severed body out of thin air so the sudden retcon that transformers can only be made of one specific metal doesn't work in that context.

    True, but it hides it far better than the other films do, if only because stupid young human romance doesn't take center stage in the first film as it does in the latter three.
    Frankly, I'll have to give this one to you :lol  since while Megatron crashed on Earth decades before Hoover Dam existed (Archibald's expedition seems to be styled after that "Lost" expedition from the mid 1800's where all the dudes froze to death and they only recently - in real life - found the sunken remains of one of their ships IIRC), there's no set time as to when he crashed.

    At the cost of human character deterioration - after DOTM, I'd think the government would probably listen to the recognized leader of a refuge alien species to at the very least stop stupidly funding a group killing them all off. Especially since everybody apparently forgot NEST even was a thing and since the Autobots were effectively the trump-card for the US in raiding conspicuously illegal middle eastern nuclear programs, there's no logical reason the US government would suddenly turn a blind eye to them suddenly getting killed off - sure, melt down all the Decepticons they want, but the Autobots were clearly far more effective assets than the hilariously inferior knock-offs meant to replace them (and naturally they also went rogue because they also rebuilt the dude who tried to kill humanity three times over by that point. Cemetery Wind wasn't just ignorant of another sentient species, they were pretty damn stupid too).

    Then why didn't they try to make alloys or outright substitute materials if it was a problematic resource? The fact the knock-offs they made technically aren't even proper transformers as they were just robots made of the same cube-thingies as the alien's spaceship from Super 8 aside, there is no clear benefit to having transforming robot slaves over even something like the ED-209 given how effective the knock-offs ultimately weren't.

    I'm pretty sure a guy getting clocked in the head by a multi-ton vehicle by way of its wheel (which is mounted onto a rigid axle which in turn is mounted rigidly on the car's wheelbase a.k.a. where the majority of its tonnage actually is found) would suffer severe concussions if not even more severe injuries leading to permanent lifetime injury or even be fatal in nature.

    It wasn't the fact the tire hit the guy, it was the fact the tire which was bolted onto the car moving at speed through the air was precisely lined up to hit the guy in the face. Had the car been just a tiny bit lower to the ground or a tiny bit more to its right, the guy would have been immediately rammed in the face by the car's bumper. And the slow-mo only highlighted that.

    Sure, it's just a nitpicking about the logistics of one scene, but the movie is just so over-the-top with the action sequences as a whole, it's more like something out of Kick-Ass or even Expendables where the ultraviolence is meant to be taken to silly levels and not at all realistic. Not from a film where the guy doing that off-the-cuff stunt is a rally driver. Hell, it would be more believable if that car had been a Transformer at least, but it wasn't.

    [​IMG]

    The runes are tiny and look like ordinary hairline cracks in old glasses. Invisible unless you intuitively know how to recognize them, I guess.

    Simple. Bumblebee is the only Autobot of the first film not seen landing and scanning the crap camaro - he got close to Sam initially to confirm the glasses (and also to pre-empt Barricade who was doing the exact same thing and had actually gotten a head start). He doesn't broadcast the "get yo butt down here, Prime" message until after he's "purchased" from Bobby B's car lot.
     
  8. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    Internet bro-hug, from me to you.
     
  9. Sentinel

    Sentinel TF Museum Curator Moderator News Staff

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    This is your opinion and it's wrong. Sorry. TF1 has much higher ratings than AOE and that is a fact. You can argue all you want, but objectively, according to a cross section of reviewers TF1 is better than AOE and I'm sorry you can't accept that. I'm glad you like AOE, but arguing about it is getting you nowhere.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  10. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    Thanks for the call out, I guess. :confused:  Could have sworn this thread was discussing why TF1 has higher ratings. Maybe I misread.
     
  11. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Lighter of Darkest Hours

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    Argument from Popularity. That is a logical fallacy.
     
  12. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Veteran

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    Because the first movie was written better and it's executed properly.

    Most fans are decieved with more robot interaction, but that doesn't make it a better movie.
     
  13. Smashs

    Smashs Internet: Pure Truth Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

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    The problem is anything that could possibly be said about any movie ever is nothing more than opinion.

    Everyone can sit on their wannabe film school high-horses and claim there is quantifiable evidence for good and bad in movies, but it's complete bullshit. Movies, much like actual artwork, are only as good as the person looking/watching deems.
     
  14. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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  15. Sentinel

    Sentinel TF Museum Curator Moderator News Staff

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    Claiming that the majority is wrong simply because you don't agree with them doesn't prove your argument either. Personally, I believe there is something to be said for so many people having similar opinions.
     
  16. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Lighter of Darkest Hours

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    Did I ever make such a statement? The amount of people who share the same opinion is meaningless, since opinions are subjective.
     
  17. jru42287

    jru42287 With great power...

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    Erm, OK. Not really seeing how Sam being present defeats my point? Sam wasn't with Bee during his fight with Barricade. He was fending off Frenzy. And at that point, we were just waiting on the other Bots to arrive, which they did right after.

    Good thing that's not at all what I was saying. He asked how they knew they were important in the first place, to which I assumed he was talking about the Decepticons (since he did not specify). I never said that Optimus hacked the government files. If anything, it would've been Bee doing it, but not through "bust in and wreck the joint" means like the Cons, but wasn't able to approach Sam, due to him not being able to talk and all.

    Bad? No. Lazy? Maybe. But no one ever claimed the movies were Oscar-worthy. TF1 was just fun, and didn't take itself too seriously, which was the best part about it. AoE, as I said before, was fucking depressing and tried to seem like it had more depth than it actually did.

    Precisely.
     
  18. transformervic1

    transformervic1 HI!

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    I praise the heck out of this post :rock  :bowdown:  I mean, /thread.
     
  19. Galvatross

    Galvatross Get shrekt every day! Veteran

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    I don't think it's so much Transformium in particular being a problematic substance to mine. As someone who has worked in the exploration and mining field sometimes the production or drilling doesn't go as planned for any number of reasons, and not every piece of metal or debris is picked up. Either way, the vast majority of Transformium was harvested by the Creators, otherwise it would not have been so rare on Earth. Had they not there would be a layer of Transformium in terrestrial end-Cretaceous rocks around the world. Not in every location necessarily, but it would be a lot more common than indicated in the movie.

    Also, the KSI drones were Transformers, but not sentient ones. That was ultimately their weakness. They don't have the intelligence or skill or awareness of an actual sentient Cybertronian. Perhaps some had more armor or were designed to be more efficient or have greater AI than others, but that was it.

    Also, the strength of Transformium is that it's a programmable metal that can be given instructions on how to act and be programmed to change appearance and change from mode-to-mode, including robot-to-vehicle. A drone made of Transformium is still a drone.
    Indeed that would kill someone, but we don't see that particular guy after that shot; he's merely one of Cemetery Wind's many members going after Prime and the Yeagers, and he happens to get hit in the head with a tire. It's no different than the many no-name soldiers who get killed in a lot of action movies, some of the times in crazy ways. Besides, Attinger himself said that men had lost their lives in pursuit of the deal for the Seed; that dude was probably one of them.

    And yeah, I think AOE has some over the top stuff, but so does most every recent big-budget action flick, including every Transformers film (2007 through AOE), every super hero film, etc. Frankly, I think anything involving Transformers should involve some over the top stuff; it's giant robots from space that transform into vehicles, mechanical animals, or everyday objects. I don't expect the action to not be over the top.

    You are a wise man Smashs. Agreed with Transformersvic!
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  20. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    A compilation of subjective opinions doesn't somehow add up to one big objective opinion.
     

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