Why Armada sucked

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Scraggin, May 11, 2007.

  1. Scraggin

    Scraggin Banned

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    It really does annoy me the amount of people saying how the Japanese suck at TFs. What about the Japanese G1 series, BW2, BWNeo?

    The problem with Armada isn't that it's an anime, it's that it's a crap anime.

    Anime in japan sometimes tends to be targeted to a lower demographic than it would be if it was released over here. Look at a series like Bleach which is very violent, yet still intended for younger teenage boys. Over here, if it wasn't censored, that would be for older teens and adults.

    Real kids' anime in japan, tends to be VERY kiddy and VERY stupid.

    One of the common complaints about a lot of Armada toys was that they looked like Playschool toys, most notably Hot Shot. That's because they ARE playschool toys - remember Takara originally made them, and they were intending them for a younger audience (4-8) than the original G1 TFs (7-11).

    Armada was mostly designed for kids who just plain couldn't handle a real plot. The original TF cartoon was pretty kiddish but often had darker, more atmospheric undertones that are absent from the more hyperactive AEC toons. It was intentionally silly, unlike AEC which was silly because it was trying to be cool and failing for anyone over the age of 8.

    The reason Cybertron was a better line was because those kids were starting to grow up. Unfortunately, the show still sucked since the kind of people who were used to making cartoons for very young children were still making it.
     
  2. Dark_Convoy

    Dark_Convoy Old Bastard Veteran

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    *has a bad when ever it was armada came out flashback*
     
  3. onesock

    onesock Banned

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    Unicron Battles.

    Those 3-4 episodes made the series.
     
  4. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    Scraggin, not much of what you said is true, or makes sense.

    I loved armada. the designs suffered not because of the "intended age", but because for the first time in MANY years, they were building TFs around gimmicks, and gimmicks always limit designs, even moreso when the designers havent done it in close to a decade. regardless, it was a fun line with a lot of cool new ideas, and brought me back into TF collecting after Beast Machines and the repaint-heavy RiD pushed me out.

    a few episodes in season 3 perhaps, but the storytelling in the rest of G1 was absolute garbage. as bad as armada and energon were written, they were much better than G1.

    Proof?

    yeah, GONZO, who makes stuff like Hellsing is too used to making childrens shows to make cybertron any good. uh huh.
     
  5. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    Whatever its shortcomings, the last quarter of Armada was greatness.

    The fight between Prime and Galvtron (err... White Megatron) inside Unicron was the best Prime X Megatron fight of any TF series.

    And its really cool to see how the designers learned from that.
    The Cybertron line was built around the Cyber Key gimmick and 95% of those toys are great in both modes with good poseability, good play value, and cool alt modes.
     
  6. Vangelus

    Vangelus Long Live the New Flesh Moderator Content Contributor

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    Finding a couple odd things in there:

    To be honest, I have no idea what factual basis this is coming from. Takara 'originally' engineered nearly every Transformers mainline product since ever...and I've never heard of Armada being a special case of aiming at a younger audience than other series prior.

    It's been said that the cut-off for toy buying seems to be happening at a younger age, but I do not believe that came about at any relevent point in regards to Armada's design period.

    Which original TF cartoon are you talking about? Because "darker" only really applies to a select few episodes of G1 Season 3 as far as I can tell, and those weren't much harsher (if even harsher at all) than the final bunch of Armada episodes (or ARM Smokescreen's "death" scene).

    Actually, wasn't Gonzo only involved in Galaxy Force/Cybertron? I forgot the name of the folks that did Armada and Energon, but there was some hoohah about the studio changing after those two.
     
  7. Tracks_25

    Tracks_25 We rollin'

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    Too much of the kids ruined Armada for me.
     
  8. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    Yeah, Gonzo did Galaxy Force only. He was talking about Galaxy Force in that part. AEON did Armada and Energon.

    THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING THAT.

    He was melted with a giant hole throgh his body. or how about when optimus prime shatters is space? Or Starscream's death? armada had a lot of really serious moments, and they were downright brutal about the violence.
     
  9. Spekkio

    Spekkio Master of War

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    I liked/loved a lot of Armada. It's what got me back into TFs after the beast nonsense.
     
  10. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    I remember before Armada came out. For months all fans had were grainy pictures of Optimus Prime. All fans (myself included) OOOhs and AAAhs. Weeks later we saw some stills from the first episode. More OOOhs and AAAhs. For as bad as it was, it even got compared to POKEMON, fans still appreciated humor and were even insulted by things like Fat Fred. Many fans liked Armada better than RID.

    Takara those days were making better Transformers than Hasbro. Their Hot Shot had a light. Fans were also happy there were even the Seekers, Starscream, "Thundercracker", Skywarp and Ramjet. Starscream was a pretty good character in Armada, not like the Zombie he was in Energon.

    Also, the final battle between Optimus and Megs/Galvatron is still noted as one of the best all out brawls.

    Let us also not forget Armada gave us the first Unicron figure you could actually buy. Being a TF fan since early '85 I was overjoyed to no end.

    Armada introduced us to Minicons/Microns that can now be shown to be a common link betwenn all TF Universes.

    Anyway, maybe Armada wasn't the greatest, but it certainly wasn't the worst.

    Anyway I had fun. Fans that complained about how hard to was to transform RID, then complained Armada was too easy. You can never make all fans happy.
     
  11. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    To be honest, I hold Armada in a high regard out of all the recent TF series. Sure, it neglected a lot of characters, but there were some excellent moments in it.

    There was the excellent scenes leading up to the Decepticons infiltrating the Autobot's base at the end of the first 13 episodes, culminating in a brief but intense battle between Hot Shot and Megatron. The episodes that followed really raised the bar. Overmatch did a lot for the series, as did the two that followed which brought in Sideways.

    The episode Tactician and its follow up, Link Up, were extremely well done as well and nicely foreshadowed Optimus' later self sacrifice, when, wounded, he asked to be teleported into mid air so he could attempt a very risky link up with Jetfire.

    The series progressed, and we got an excellent opening to the second leg of the series with the revelation that Sideways was something more than a "mere" Transformer. Then we got a couple of episodes of Tidal Wave badassery and the Requiem Blaster's introduction.

    The two parter, Past, was one of the most brilliantly written stand alone stories of the series. The death of Smokescreen, Starscream's confusion over the side he was on, and the Hydra cannon built up a lot of tension as the series moved toward its conclusion.

    We got some excellent scenes on Cybertron as Unicron came onto the field. Starscream died, a scene that made him nearly as sympathetic and meaningful as Dinobot in Beast Wars. We got a huge combined Transformer fleet going one on one with Unicron. And the last battle, the most brutal and intense TF battle ever, equalling the Movie's Megatron / Optimus showdown for carnage, not bad considering the fact the series had to be produced on a budget.

    Armada may not have got everything right - the kids took up far too much screentime, and there were too many characters neglected. Translation errors were rife, and hurt the show. The animation was less than steller. But when Armada did it right, it did it right. The story was great in the end, and unlike the other two series, it worked well in the episodes it filled out. Plot threads weren't forgotten like in Energon, and we didn't have half a dozen episodes dedicated to races. Indeed the episodic nature of the earlier episodes helped to make the series easier to get into.


    The toys were another matter. They were solid and lacked poseability, but at the same time, a lot of good was done. Minicons were like a second coming of Micromasters and have kept that particular torch burning nicely. Those pocket sized Transformers were one of if not the best addition to the series.
    There were a lot of other cool toys, too. Scavenger was quirky, but fun in his own way. Red Alert was excellent if a little under appreciated. Megatron was awesome, shame about the hips, but hey, we got Tidal Wave, Megatron's first combiner partner, who was also an excellent robot in his own right.

    And the line gave us our Unicron toy. After 17 years of waiting, Unicron finally got a toy. I remember coming back from university specially to open mine the weekend he arrived. He is arguably the best thing to come out of Armada. Well, okay, second best thing.

    The best thing was the PS2 game by Melbourne House. Love or loathe the show, the game is an excellent blast with several great set pieces, not least of them the Tidal Wave boss fight.
     
  12. Moonstreaker

    Moonstreaker The Evil Triplet

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    Personally, I think Armada and Cybertron series both sucked donkey balls. Both toy lines were also worthless shit (with the exception of Leader Class Cybertron figures). Neither one did anything to add to the TF universe. I actually preffer not to even acknowledge their existance. It makes me feel better.
     
  13. Optimus-JD

    Optimus-JD Team Laser Explosion!

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    Yes, but how do you really feel?

    Geez.
     
  14. Rotorstorm

    Rotorstorm OriginalRotorstorm Fanboy

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    i wouldn't say that if i were you, there have been many fantastic figures over the years the trilogy was the main line. alot of the basic figures for cybertron were awesome and had possibility overtaking some alternators.

    there is only one thing i regret about cybertron and that is the fact that not all the toys i wanted were released here. (cybertron smokescreen/ crosswise)
     
  15. Tfgraveyard

    Tfgraveyard Not a Fan of the Fans

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    Armada sucked? news to me. Even with the errors, my son and I thoroughly enjoyed the series.
     
  16. Nerroth

    Nerroth Alea iacta est.

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    I may not be a big fan of the Armada TV series (generally the dubbed versions of Japanese TF series don't gel for me as well as the subbed originals) - but I loved the Armada comic.

    It really kicked off with the Moonbase arc, and then we were hit with Worlds Colide - a story arc that planted the 'multiverse' idea - that all TF series are canon, from a near-infinite series of parallel realities - that has been a part of the mythos ever since.

    And it turned the Mini-Cons from beep-beep merchants to serious characters in their own right - such as with Over-Run, who went from being Bendy Prime's gun-plane-bot to becoming a dimension-hopping, planet-integrating, Matrix-bearing hero!


    Gary
     
  17. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    The funny part is, I believe Hasbro has stated that Armada was resoundingly successful, and the "shot in the arm" the franchise needed after Beast Machines and RiD were not terribly well-received by the target audience.

    So maybe it didn't appeal to you, but let's not "crap where we eat". Armada made a big difference for the future of Transformers.
     
  18. Seeker

    Seeker Time Lord

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    To each his /her own of course but as of right now I think that both the Armada toon and toyline are the worst TF has had to offer in recent years. The Armada toon was aimed at a much younger crowd than the previous toons from what I've seen and after that incredible (yeah) episode carnival I did not watch the show until the last few episodes. Even then I don't know if it was the budget or just bad animation but Unicron did not do anything but moan and groan the entire time. The dialog was corny (I admit other Tf series have had that problem) the animation was not that great and I hated that gotta catch em all pokemon crap concering the minicons. Why did the TFs have teeth? That still bothers me right up to this day. The toyline was really a disappointment for me. Despite what one thought of the toon the RID figures were darn good imo. Great articulation and alternate modes all around, now the Armada line takes a big step back in articulation and they look like playskool toys. The only figures I bought were Prime (which I regret) and Thundercracker who was a repaint. I actually liked the ending of the Energon toon better I think, I know a lot of people like Armada but these are just my um...more than two cents.
     
  19. Megatronwp38

    Megatronwp38 Megatron? Is that you!?!?

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    the 1st half of armada was not very good IMO. I never saw the second half because I lost interest because the 1st half was annoying and boring. I have heard that the second half is better and I would like to see it. Maybe I will pick up the series DVDs one day.
     
  20. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    I still don't see where rescuing minicons from decepticon enslavement has anything to do with pokemon. as for TF teeth, blame marvel comics. it started there.

    energon was a complete mess. the ending made no sense. everyone gets bigger for no reason, and prime wears the omega armor despite omega supreme being right next to him AND much smaller.
     

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