who's at fault

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by JunkionExchange, Feb 15, 2006.

  1. JunkionExchange

    JunkionExchange Banned

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    So i put an item on ebay I stated clearly that the Item is a wst blah blah blah. I put in a pic of the Wst Item. now I get this from the guy.
    here's the link http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6036304375&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT&rd=1
    "This Auction is for a transformers Wst Black Optimus Prime with Trailer. Pic is of my own Buyer will be getting a sealed one. Comes from a airconditioned smoke free home."

    While you may know what "Wst" stands for, the rest of the general market may not. I have never seen these things in any stores around here, so WST means nothing to me. I had no idea I was bidding on a micro toy, or that they even made micro transformers. I didn't read the words "worlds smallest" anywhere in the auction description or I would not have bid on this item. I have however seen an exclusive full sized black convoy repaint, and that is what I thought I was bidding on. I was ready to pay way higher for that and was astounded when the auction ended as low as it did. The bottom line is the auction description did not clearly define what I was bidding on. Maybe in package pictures of the actual item rather than stock photos would have helped. Maybe a description longer than 3 sentences would have helped. It is partly my fault for bidding on an item that was not clearly defined, I thought it was something it is not. Sorry. There are steps we can take to void the auction and get your sellers fees credited, but I am not paying $35 for a micro toy. Please keep this in mind when listing future auctions so other people like me do not make the same mistake. Again sorry for the inconvienience.

    Bryan.



    <junkionexchange@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
    it is the Wst world smallest as stated on the auction

    Bryan wrote: I just won this auction and I am either highly elated or am going to be highly disappointed. I just emailed the link to a friend to show him what I won and he said it is a "World's Smallest Transformer". Is this a full sized toy or one of the micro toys? I did not realize that is what WST stood for if it is. I couldn't tell from the picture if it is. Hopefully he is wrong. Help please

    so Im like is it my fault the pics were not stock pics as he states but pics of my own Item on top of my car. what do you folks think?
     
  2. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    I could go either way on it - I think he could have done a bit more research and looked a little more closely at the pic, BUT there could have been some sense of scale provided in your pictures (like a battery or dollar bill) to ensure no misunderstandings.

    I do believe it was misleading on your part to put "Black Jafcon Optimus Prime" in the auction title when Black Jafcon Optimus Prime is a full size toy that was available at Jafcon, not a WST. What you sold was a bootleg black WST Optimus Prime - it had nothing to do with Jafcon whatsoever. Additionally, I own one and I don't recall it actually being 'sealed' per se. They ship in a plastic bag with tape on it. I also feel it's very important to mention you're selling an unofficial product, as that is also important to some people.

    Both buyer and seller could have done more, but ultimately the responsibility lies with the seller, in my opinion. They should do everything in their power to represent their product in the most detailed, thorough way possible - after all, you WANT people to feel accurately informed about the product, because it makes them more comfortable moving forward with a purchase. 'WST' has been the going acronym for quite a while, but we always have to be forthcoming with additional detail when selling because there are always newbies out there. Plus when we're selling a product like WST that was never released in the U.S., the subset of people who even know about them will be much smaller.

    Just my $.02, since you asked. :) 
     
  3. Omnibus Prime

    Omnibus Prime I'm too old for this shit TFW2005 Supporter

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    Well...one the one hand, I find it odd that he knows enough to know about Jafcon Prime, but doesn't know what WST means. WST is so entrenched at this point as to be a bona-fide search term.
    On the flip side though, you put Jafcon in the title and while it's obvious to me that it's not the actual Jafcon Prime in the pic, he kinda has a point. I realize you probably put it in there so that people searching for 'Jafcon' would bring back yours as a result and they might be interested seeing as how they're looking for the big one.
    But a short bit stating that this is not the Jafcon Prime is probably called for, IMO. Not for any particularly ethical reasons, but because there's a lot of morons on Ebay, buyers and sellers, who don't know what the hell they're doing and you do what you can to try and avoid dealing with them.
     
  4. JunkionExchange

    JunkionExchange Banned

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  5. Ops_was_a_truck

    Ops_was_a_truck JOOOLIE ANDREWWWWWS!!!!!!

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    Well, I honestly find it frustrating when an ebay seller uses only one sentence to describe an auction. I usually don't buy or consider something that's described very briefly, like so. Just my opinion.

    When I put stuff on ebay, I approach a description of the sale like the buyer is an absolute idiot. I describe EVERYTHING about an item - condition, play wear, type, style, series, etc. A worded description is sometimes worth just as much as the pics themselves. That way, I don't have to assume any sort of responsibility if the person says "Wait a minute, this isn't (whatever.)"

    Food for thought.
     
  6. misterd

    misterd Well-Known Member

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    I'd say you each put a foot in the manure. Shake hands and move along.
     
  7. TSFC

    TSFC Banned

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    Neither one of you can win this one. Sorry, but that's how it is.

    Why?
    1.) You could've made it clearer. Simple as that.

    2.) He's been around eBay, he's seen the auctions before. Hell you can trip over them in any normal TF search on eBay. He knows what he bid on, he's full of shit and doesn't want to pay for it.
     
  8. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    I just saw this in the buyer's feedback:
    He's got 5 negatives, out of 68 total. And he doesn't seem shy about leaving negs for other people.
    I'd say "sure, here's your money", refund it, then block him from bidding on your auctions again.
     
  9. JunkionExchange

    JunkionExchange Banned

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    Thanks for pointing that out draven seems that this guy does this crap alot then he bids on stuff then doesn't pay after he changes his mind. Ebay should kick these losers off
     
  10. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    Hmmm... well, you've asked for people's comments, but it looks like you're just looking for defense of your position, and don't seem ready to acknowledge your responsibility whatsoever. Out of the six people who responded to you, five have suggested that you could have made a number of changes. Don't ignore the other feedback you've received in this thread.

    Draven was right, the guy has some negatives - but it's also worth noting that one was five months ago and the others were 3-4 years ago. Not a great record, but hardly a pattern. His response to you was also fairly polite. I would still sell to him.

    Personally, I would never have bid on this auction because the description was too short, it was incomplete, inaccurate (Jafcon), misleading, and you also failed to mention you were selling a bootleg product. It looks risky to me, because it appears that the seller either doesn't know the product he's selling, or is trying to be intentionally deceptive. You could have done a LOT more to support your potential customers. Now it's time to provide some customer service, apologize for the misunderstanding, and you can both give each other postive feedback and move on.
     
  11. GALVATOM

    GALVATOM Well-Known Member

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    "The customers always right"
     
  12. Orodruin

    Orodruin @deathformer TFW2005 Supporter

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    The only thing I'd add at this point is a settlement idea- see if he'll cover the listing fee, assuming it's pretty cheap, and refund the rest.
     
  13. SydneyY

    SydneyY @syd_tfw Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    Reading this I remembered when I sold a MISB EZ collection Master Galvatron.

    I at least thought of putting in "This figure is the same size as Legends of Cybertron figures", but did not state the actual size of it.
    The figure is in a nice box (better than GF Master Galvatron, you know), so I guess I was lucky the buyer knew what it was. Could have been someone who thought it was the Leader class figure and got upset when he received it :redface2: 
     
  14. JunkionExchange

    JunkionExchange Banned

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    I not saying I couldn't make the item description clearer by puttin World's smallest but the item does have pictures its not an auction with no pictures where every detail needs to be put on there. And be honest folks how many of you bid on items with no pics going on just the description. If the description is the only thing of importance here as most of you are saying then shouldn't it also be the buyers responsibility to look up WST? And whe you make a bid doesn't ebay remind you that it is a binding contract? I believe it does. As for payment he has not paid and now refuses to pay as he was mistakened on what it was. And when I look at his email if he would have worded it different instead of telling me what must be done i probably would have just said ok happens and let it go. But in his email he seems ready to demand that I do this and that when in the final aspect it was he who made the bid.
     
  15. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    Not trying to be a jerk about this, but you did ask, so here goes... you seem very fixated on the fact that his bid was a contract. While this is true, you still continue to avoid addressing the fact that you're selling an unofficial product without mentioning it in the listing, and your pictures provide no sense of scale to help an individual understand what they're buying. Inaccurate description + poor pictures = bad auction.

    So lets imagine a guy walks into an applicance store. He knows very little about appliances, but knows he wants a DISHWASHER.

    In his ignorance, he inadvertently walks over to the <b>CLOTHES</b> washing machines, and on the tag it says, 'easy to install', 'conserves water', 'cleans great', 'low energy usage', 'really gets out dirt and stains'. He thinks to himself, "Yes! This is exactly what I'm looking for to get my dishes their brightest". He buys the laundry machine, takes it home and hooks it up, loads in a huge pile of dishes, and chaos ensues.

    Partially his fault for being an idiot? Yes. But more the store's fault for providing ambiguous info and not helping him make an informed decision. Consumers need product knowledge, and in my opinion, sellers are obliged to provide it. Buying and selling is a shared responsibility between both parties - you had someone bid who didn't know the product well, but had your listing been more thorough the problem could have been easily circumvented, causing less pain for both of you.

    Plus, you're going to come out looking like the better person if you just make it right and agree to leave positives for each other, like "Transaction not completed, but situation worked out ok"
     
  16. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    Nothing is wrong with your auction. Saying you should define "WST" in the auction is the same as saying everyone should define "G1" "G2" "Beast Wars" "Alternator" and "Binaltech" in their auctions.

    Its the buyer's job to educate themselves before bidding on stuff. you put "WST" in your auction. anyone thats a transformer fan and has internet access knows what that means. you shouldnt have to compensate for his ignorance.
     
  17. Ops_was_a_truck

    Ops_was_a_truck JOOOLIE ANDREWWWWWS!!!!!!

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    I disagree entirely. While I admit that a customer should have some knowledge about the product which he/she is seeking, the terms you have mentioned here indicate specific, within-the-fandom terminology that other folks might not readily recognize. While "Beast Wars," "Alternators" and "Binaltech" are accepted names - AS DISTRIBUTED BY HASBRO, the recognized creator of these toys and ostensibly authority on their terminology. "G1," "G2," and "WST" are NOT. They are FAN TERMS used to concatenate "Generation 1", etc.

    As such, THEY WOULD LIKELY NOT BE RECOGNIZABLE TO AN OUTSIDER FAN/LURKER.

    Let's say I'm new to the fandom, which I was, relatively recently. I'm not part of any message boards - as a lurker or as a member. I know I want the black Jafcon prime. I stumble upon your auction, which clearly labels this toy as a "black Jafcon WST prime." Now, unsure of what WST means, I know I'm there for a black Jafcon prime. The description doesn't help. The pictures look almost exactly what I want. I go in for the kill, to be unpleasantly surprised. It's now MY fault that, of all the things described correctly in the auction, I must be held accountable for NO DESCRIPTION OF THE TERM "WST?"

    I can think of plenty of times that I've looked on ebay, seen a Transformer that interested me, read the scant description of the object and assumed, usually based on only 1 sentence of description, "This seller probably won't communicate with me. He can't describe his auction completely. He's probably inept."

    In my opinion, WST is a scant description. You can blame the buyer as much as it makes you feel better, but the end result of this either you and he duking it out like a pair of retards for about 15-20 e-mails and then taking it to ebay, where, regardless, one of you will get screwed and BOTH of you will just get pissed off and irritated with the transaction.

    Why don't you save yourself the trouble and try and find a middle ground with the guy? Forcing a $30 dollar toy down someone's throat, ebay contract or not, does not a courteous seller make.

    Definitely. Without a doubt. The less negative ebay feedback you can get, the better.
     
  18. MegaMoonMan

    MegaMoonMan www.megamoonman.com TFW2005 Supporter

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    Save yourself a hassle and refund the guy. It's a misleading auction title (even though I know what WST means, and so should he), and it sounds like he's gonna fight it to the end and probably never pay.

    You can always sell it again, save yourself some time and angst.
     
  19. Kickback

    Kickback Proud father Administrator Super Mod News Staff

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    You're both idiots.

    You for intentionally misleading dumb customers with the "Black Jafcon" description of your item, and him for being the dumb customer.

    Honesty sucks.
     
  20. RandomFerret

    RandomFerret Fuzzy Forever

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    The auction is perfectly legitimate, the description is enough to support the pictures, the buyer is a fool and you are completely in the right.

    That said, I'd go ahead and give him the refund.
     

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