Who really is 2nd in command?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Rodimus, May 30, 2010.

  1. Rodimus

    Rodimus The Prime Producer

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    This question is especially confusing to answer for the Autobots. In More Than Meets The Eye/season 1, we find Optimus having Jazz take on duties that a 2nd in command would normally do. Things such as assembling a task force, taking role call, organizing the team, and ordering their transformations and engine starting...

    But then we get to season 2 and most of the time you find Ironhide assuming leadership duties when Optimus isn't around. Especially in The Search For Alpha Trion. Here Ironhide seems to be the 2nd in command, and grabs leadership if there's a situation and Optimus isn't there.

    In the comics, we hear that Prowl is 2nd in charge, but then later on it's Grimlock who gets to become the Autobot Leader. And in the cartoon, Grimlock seems to be the Autobot version of Starscream... he won't follow orders and does his own thing, and thinks he should lead unless Optimus Prime proves he's stronger.

    Then we go to Transformers: The Movie and when Optimus Prime dies, it's Ultra Magnus he passes the Matrix to, not Jazz or Grimlock, or even Hot Rod. (Ironhide and Prowl are already dead at this point so it's tough to tell what their rank truely was.) However it is Hot Rod who becomes the leader when Ultra Magnus couldn't get the job done and makes some errors of judgement. Even after Rodimus Prime becomes Prime and saves the day, Ultra Magnus has no desire to try and assume leadership back from Rodimus Prime and all the Autobots choose to follow Rodimus Prime as their leader. As a side note, it is also Jazz who is right at the side of Rodimus Prime the instant he becomes leader and helps lead the Autobots out of Unicron.

    For the Decepticons it's a little easier, but not totally. Most people assume Starscream is 2nd in command. And sure he did take command when it was thought Megatron was dead in season 1, but is that an oppurtunity that Starscream took, or is he actually the 2nd in command? Just because he was an oppurunist and wanted to be leader, and Megatron thought of him valuable enough to keep him around (at least until it became too much by the end of season 2), does that really make him the 2nd in command of the Decepticons? You look at all the tasks distributed by Megatron on Earth, and it seems Soundwave was always his go to Decepticon.

    But then again, it was Shockwave who Megatron gave the authority to rule their entire home planet. Does this mean that Shockwave is 2nd in command for the Decepticons?

    So the question is, who is truely the 2nd in Command for the Autobots, and who is really the 2nd in Command for the Decepticons?
     
  2. Tigertrack

    Tigertrack Back In The Game!

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    Good question. Cause when I display my G1 figures, I'd like to know who to display to the right of both leaders.
     
  3. Rodimus

    Rodimus The Prime Producer

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    Thinking about it, I think Shockwave is definately the Decepticons 2nd in Command. I mean you wouldn't just give your entire home planet to just anyone to rule. It had to be the next highest ranked Decepticon; someone you know you can rely on and is competent enough to keep what you conquered.
     
  4. nexus_maximus

    nexus_maximus Banned

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    Im pretty sure Seaspray is Optimus Prime's number 2 and Wheelie is Rodimus' number 2. Of course Rumble is Megatron's 2nd in command and Counter Punch was Galvatron's 2nd in command. In case you haven't figured it out yet, I'm just kidding HA EFFING HA!
     
  5. Rodimus

    Rodimus The Prime Producer

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    :drunk  Drinking by any chance?? :sly2: 
     
  6. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    I'm pretty sure it was ... that guy - you know the one I'm talking about. I distinctly remember he had an Autobot symbol on him somewhere.
     
  7. Transfotaku

    Transfotaku Transformer Otaku

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    Spike was the Autobot's 2nd in command.

    Laserbeak is the Con's.
     
  8. Maloknazh

    Maloknazh Black Metal Ist Krieg

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    Never thought about it that way. The fact that the leadership roll changes constantly never bothered me, but now it is!
     
  9. BScorpinok75

    BScorpinok75 Squadron X #1 Consultant

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    For me its:

    Shockwave for Megatron

    Cyclonus for Galvatron

    Prowl, Blaster & Grimlock for Optimus Prime

    Ultra Magnus & Springer for Rodimus Prime
     
  10. E. C. R. Former

    E. C. R. Former Is probably insane...

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    It generally differs between continuities. So, for me personally its:

    Prowl and Jazz for Optimus Prime

    Shockwave and Starscream for Megatron

    Ultra Magnus for Rodimus Prime

    Cyclonus for Galvatron

    Oh, BScorpinok75, why Blaster?
     
  11. Rodimus

    Rodimus The Prime Producer

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    I was going to ask that too. I'm also suprised no mentioning of Ironhide. Honestly I really don't see any leadership comming from Prowl, so other than his bio possibly from the comics, I don't know how he gets that reputation with fans.

    I also completely forgot to mention Cyclonus. No doubt when Galvatron took over he was the clear 2nd in command. Ultra Magnus was for Rodimus Prime after the movie. I wonder though, had Scatman Crothers lived for the rest of the series if they would have alternated some of that role to Jazz?
     
  12. Chopperface

    Chopperface Holtzmanned

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    Yes, you asked about G1, but I love the second in command role, so I'll list em all.

    In G1, I believe those who qualified as second in commands were Jazz, Prowl, Ironhide, later Ultra Magnus, Kup, and Springer. The Decepticon second in commands were Soundwave, Starscream, Shockwave, and Cyclonus to Galvatron.

    In the Beast Era Inferno, Dinobot and Dinobot II, and Scorponok were Megatron's second in commands. Tarantulas definetly had potential if he wasn't cuckoo about the Vok and the TriPredacus Council. On Primal's team, Rhinox was the obvious second, and whenever he lead the Maximals either with Optimus out of commision or dead, Rattrap was probably Rhinox's second.

    In Beast Machines Jetstorm and the Diagnostic Drone qualified, and later Obsidian. With Primal, Cheetor matured enough to be second, as Primal himself made clear. Silverbolt and Rattrap would've probably been seconds to Cheetor without Primal after BM's end.

    I haven't looked into the RiD and Unicron Trilogy... sorry fans. :\

    In the films, Jazz was said to be Prime's lieutanant. After him, Ironhide and Ratchet were about equal to second in command rank. When Ironhide probably assumed command after Prime's death in ROTF, Ratchet was probably 2nd in command. In the ROTF prequel Defiance, Prowl, Jazz and Ironhide seemed up to that rank.

    In Animated, Ratchet was second in command probably to Prime's team, and Prowl followed almost immediately afterward. In the Elite Guard, Sentinel is allegedly second in command. As far as all of Cybertron goes, Alpha Trion is the vice Magnus, according to Wyatt.
     
  13. NCStarscream

    NCStarscream Me Grimlock cute

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    Starscream for the 'cons.

    In G1 I considered Ironhide the second in command from the start. In the movieverse it was Jazz...after he got killed Ironhide seemed to take over his rank.
     
  14. Evil Dead

    Evil Dead Well-Known Member

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    I could be entirely wrong, but I think I remember reading something in one of the more recent comics that the second in command of the Autobots varies on what the particular mission is. (It was a storyline where Kup asks Jazz what the deal is, since Jazz is leading, and Kup seemed to think it was Prowl who was in charge after Optimus--and Jazz said they each had their own specialty, and so whatever was called for at the time was the one who lead the team. But of course once Kup showed up, he kind of took over.)

    And personally, I always went along with Jazz being second in command, too.

    For the Decepticons, I always thought of Shockwave as a glorified secretary--someone to keep things in order for the boss while the boss is away. And Soundwave would be a good contendor for a covert second in command, but I don't think it's something Megatron would flat-out come out and say. And the reason being is, I imagine he'd want Soundwave to be behind the scenes for when Starscream pulled rank in his absence--someone who is indefinately loyal, and would be able to pull the others away from Starscream, if things became a bit too much.
     
  15. IACON

    IACON "That's Vector Sigma?" TFW2005 Supporter

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    For me in the G1 universe it would be Ironhide. He is the 2nd in command. That is because, even though his origins are not that known, I consider him to be Dion. I think A3 reconstructed him after Megatron shot him and Ariel. Besides, he goes way back with Prime, that makes him the perfect candidate to be the 2nd in command.

    For the Decepticons it would be Starscream. No need to explain why.
     
  16. Transfotaku

    Transfotaku Transformer Otaku

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    You got to remember there's a difference between 2nd in command, people who are in command of large parts of the army, and people who are in command of teams.

    Starscream's the Air Commander. He's just in charge of all the Con air force. That gives him a rather sizable part of the force to command, but that doesn't make him second in command.

    Magnus is definitely Rodimus' 2nd. Springer wouldn't be. Springer is just the go to guy that leads the teams often. Springer would be the Duke of GI Joe, basically. Or in SG-1, Springe would be Jack or Cameron...they lead the teams, but the general of the base was the leader.

    Prowl would be Prime's 2nd, if you go by bios and comics. In toons, he just gets kicked aside. Ironhide was Prime's bodyguard it seems. And Jazz is the chief espionage agent. All three would be in Prime's "cabinet" - all advisors reporting directly to him, but Prowl being the logistical 2nd. Guy in charge of all the day to day ops, reports, planning, etc.The others would get command of their own spcialties, or their mission based teams, like Springer for Roddy.
     
  17. Auto Morph

    Auto Morph Gimmick Bot

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    For the Autobots, I don't see there being a clear 'second in command'. Jazz is mentioned as Prime's first Lieutenant in the first movie, and certainly shows authority in the original cartoons, but then Ironhide would also be right up there.

    As others have mentioned, I prefer to look at it as if Prime has a group of officers at his side who all fulfil different roles. For example, Ironhide would be weapons/warefare, Jazz is tactical and Prowl is security. They all compliment each other.

    Moving on to season 3, I would say Magnus was only involved as he held a role of leadership on Cybertron and once the war started to spread by the time of the animated movie he became more of a central figure.

    As for the Decepticons, clearly it is Shockwave who is closest to Megatron, but Starscream and Soundwave are in that 'elite group'.

    This can all be changed for each continuity, but as far as G1 goes, these are what I like to stick to.
     
  18. Prime Noble

    Prime Noble Well-Known Member

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    The old Marvel UK comics listed Prowl and Jazz as joint second in command.

    IDW and Marvel have both had Prowl in charge when Prime is not around.

    Budiansky definitely had Prowl as second in command. Prime refers to Prowl as the most trusted of his advisors in the first comic. Prowl commanded the Autobots when Prime was held captive by Shockwave.

    In Target 2006, when the Autobots reflect on the disappearance of Prime, Prowl and Ratchet, Prowl is blatantly referred to as Prime's second in command.
     
  19. Prime Noble

    Prime Noble Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, Laptop acting up.
     
  20. E. C. R. Former

    E. C. R. Former Is probably insane...

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    You ever read the comics? Prime Noble pretty much explained it.
     

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