Who is your TFilm Scapegoat?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by QLRformer, Aug 30, 2012.

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Who is your TFilm Scapegoat?

  1. The director

    29 vote(s)
    39.7%
  2. The writers

    15 vote(s)
    20.5%
  3. The producers

    3 vote(s)
    4.1%
  4. I don’t pick scapegoats

    26 vote(s)
    35.6%
  1. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    Obviously, we’re blaming people for how these films have turned out; we cant help it, when we find something’s not to our liking or requirement we have to work out whose fault it is. So who do you blame for the TFilms not being as good as they should have been?


    THE DIRECTOR
    MBay has taken most of the flak for these films. I can’t really say if he deserves it, but he’s taken it fairly well, not backing down or apologizing for what he’s done (except I think ROTF, but he just said there were parts he could have improved given more time). He was CHOSEN to direct, chosen by Spielberg, and he even initially rejected doing TRANSFORMERS at first – it was only when the idea of a robot war on Earth seriously interested him that he decided to give it a shot. So far all three films have been successful, so successful that he has been brought back for a fourth film. With DOTM becoming the fourth all-time blockbuster, he must be doing something right... right?

    I consider him to direct the film as per the script: his individual touches amounted to dressing the heroines in skimpy attire, and making Skids and Mudflap black and (according to Mark Ryan) Jetfire British (apparently the constructicles weren’t even his idea but Ehren Kruger’s); in general his vision of the Transformers – an alien robot war on Earth, shafeshifting aliens who are made of multiple components – has scored a hit.

    And correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Hasbro keep a tight control over its properties? It’s only with the company’s permission can any Transformers be cast at all. Beyond that there are a whole bunch of negotiations with the military and car companies as to whether they can use their vehicles as alt-modes (Ferrari’s Mirage had to be renamed Dino, and Chevrolet added their Volt automobile in ROTF as a last-minute request).

    Generally I can’t find anything wrong with the way he’s shot these TFilms. Their action is top class, and the robots themselves are a fantastic visual treat – it will forever be a shame these films didn’t get any Oscars.

    The only fault I see with MBay is his magnification of the human element: the approach that the humans need screentime equal to the robots is absolute slag. It’s acceptable and reasonable to have the military aid the Autobots, I’m fine with that; but he has no understanding of normal human behavior – literally; if you’ve noticed, his civilian characters are generally portrayed as rather edgy and eccentric (BAD BOYS, THE ROCK, THE ISLAND) while his military characters are actually fairly decent (PEARL HARBOUR, and Lennox and Epps). I tend to fast-forward the solely human scenes whenever I can.



    THE WRITERS
    Adapting a cartoon takes a lot of effort, especially a well-loved cartoon franchise that features a literal galaxy of characters and elements. You can only choose so much to work with, within budget and other resources.

    I was impressed with Orci and Kurtzman’s work on the first TFilm, though to be fair Spielberg reportedly supervised and doctored the script. Spielberg’s influence can be seen in the civilian scenes – Sam Witwicky is clearly a teenager going to college, and is rather snarky but nowhere near a douchebag, he’s at his most normal and likeable in this film. This is also, so far, the best of the TFilms - it’s got that special mystical feel, of the larger-than-life adventure of taking part in a secret savage war for the fate of Earth.

    I thought ROTF was fairly good, and could have been better. The general excuse is the WGA strike, which makes a perfectly reasonable excuse to me: had production been delayed for a while (at least till the strike was over) they might have straightened/smoothened some things out. As it is, Orci and Kurtzman did the best they could with reportedly only three weeks to write the script (even bringing in their acquaintance Ehren Kruger to help out). Using the Fallen, the other Primes and the Pyramids was an interesting if underused touch – in any case we got to see Soundwave and Ravage, Jetfire, the Constructicons and best of all their combiner robot Devastator.

    DOTM was written by Ehren Kruger, who took over as Orci and Kurtzman declined working on it. I thought it was an utter mess, the one good thing out of it was Sentinel Prime (I’m not the only one who thinks so, as this thread proves - IMDb :: Boards :: Transformers: Dark of the Moon (2011) :: Whoever wrote this is a frigging moron). There were too many unlikeable humans (heck, Sam ended up an utter douchebag and Carly did very little except look hot and provoke Megatron), too little time for the robots, and some things were a complete flat-out wrongdoing (no lines for Shockwave, Megatron a shambles and Optimus being as ruthless as his own foe).

    Still, it’s not really the writers’ fault either. They picked the best, most popular elements of the TF saga and reworked them as best as they could, given their short deadlines and studio pressure.



    THE PRODUCERS
    Paramount and Hasbro knew they’d scored a win with the first film, so they decided to throw out two sequels – they even set the release date for ROTF before the previous film had released. Besides that, they put pressure on MBay and Orci-Kurtzman to return, despite MBay wanting to do PAIN & GAIN first and the writers being busy with other projects. Thus ROTF and DOTM feel a little bit rushed through IMO (there are other issues but I think this is the main one).

    Sometimes a good film requires time for it to be properly and satisfactorily worked out and worked on. Even Christopher Nolan and Bryan Singer took more than two years between their BATMAN/X-MEN films. And with something as huge and diverse as TRANSFORMERS, you’d need to take your time over what would/should appear in a TFilm.


    Long story short: I think the producers should have been taken more care with these films.
     
  2. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    You.
     
  3. roccondil5

    roccondil5 sculptor

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    :lolol  :lolol 
     
  4. optimegatron

    optimegatron Not over, not finished.

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    I'm not blaming anyone.
    They made mistakes. Sure. Making a movie out of a cartoon is easy? You go make one and call me.

    People can make mistakes. Unlike a lot of people, I don't go "OMG ROTF SUCKED MBAY IS STUPID"
     
  5. TNG Prime

    TNG Prime TNG Prime IS a title!

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    No one to blame when all three were great, each better than the last.

    And no point in finding who the credit goes to, since they all helped and it would be unfair to only credit one.
     
  6. PrimesRule

    PrimesRule Banned

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    Bay, all Bay.
     
  7. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Bay.

    he just takes the stuff from the scripts he likes and discards anything else.
     
  8. reep15

    reep15 Well-Known Member

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    This.
     
  9. Jetcracker54

    Jetcracker54 Fire Truck

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    youre saying rotf was better then transformers 2007 there is something wrong with you
     
  10. JetFormers

    JetFormers « Ultima Ratio Hecate »

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    Yea you see I have nothing wrong with the films, I just see it as another Transformers cartoon based on other G1 characters/others characters, or non characters that are just new like, Dino I don't call him mirage, OK..I maybe lieing if I said I didn't. Besides the point I do look at him as a whole new character isn't that the best thing in most shows/cartoons/Anime? Whenever a new character comes in and he might be badass or not. Yes I agree there is time where their is certain characters that just acts totally different from their previous incarnations, Optimus being one of them in the film, yes he is still the heroic autobot we know and love, but with a pinch of violence inside him. Again just saying my point, I look at the films as a whole new cartoon not anything based on G1, or Armada, or even Prime. Another thing that I agree in the post is...less humans please.
     
  11. UltraPrimus56

    UltraPrimus56 In the ruins of paradise

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    I don't like to point fingers at anyone. They all had a part in making these movies, if you want to point fingers then point them at everyone involved in the making of these films. No disrespect, but you try and make a movie during a writer's strike, or you try to take the responsibility of creating giant robots with thousands of moving parts, and they also have to have realistic facial expressions, they most move and feel lifelike, and most importantly transform. The list goes on and on... My point is that being a director, or a writer, or a producer is in no way a walk in the park. Especially when you're trying to make millions of die-hard fans across the globe happy with what you have created, that is even tougher to do. I personally love the movies, and respect Bay, Speilberg, the designers, and the writers for taking on an enormous franchise to try and bring something fresh to the table without trying to piss of its fanbase (guess that didn't go as smoothly as they would've liked).
     
  12. Scorpio

    Scorpio Well-Known Member

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    Actually Bay admitted it was his fault for ROTF he also blamed the writing staff due to the strike however he was the one doing filming so yh... he accepted he messed up.
     
  13. Scorpio

    Scorpio Well-Known Member

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    The plot was terrible for each of the films with the plot being slightly better in the final film due to them wanting to give the films a good legacy. Most trilogy's are judged by the final film which is one of the reasons why Spider-man is rated badly due to Spider-man 3.

    On the other hand the shooting in both the first and second films was entirely Michael Bay's fault as he used constant shaking camera during the action scenes because he used the same effect in other action sequences.

    In terms of being a good film the only somewhat reasonable film was Dark of the Moon however this is only when compared with the other films in the series. Even Dark of the Moon had many problems and still included some scene's which it should not have.

    Anyway, point of this all is that people are not just looking for someone to blame because they dont get exactly what they want. They are looking for someone to blame because they paid to watch something they thought would be good and ended up wasting money on something that a dog could have left on your lawn.

    The entire film series is rubish compared to any other series, form of media or anything else related to Transformers (Except maybe the creepy series with the tongue bots *shudder*)
     
  14. FatalT 71

    FatalT 71 Mr. JazzHunter

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    All of them, Bay takes the lion's share of blame since he is the boss.
     
  15. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    When a film is great the director gets all the glory, when a film is bad they get all the scorn. Why, because they are the captain of the ship and they get the last word on everything in the movie.

    For example Peter Jackson didn't draw the designs for Gollum but out of all the designs submitted by the artist he had to chose which design the film was going to use. If Christopher Nolan didn't like the way Christian Bale delivered a line then as the director he could ask for a re-shoot of the scene. If Mel Brooks decides that a joke just don't work as well as he hoped that can get left on the cutting room floor to fix the flow of the film. When the shark wouldn't work right for Jaws Spielberg asked the writer to make big changes to work around the shark not working.

    A director approves everything in a film and in the end it's the director that decides what goes into the finished film and what gets left out.
     
  16. TNG Prime

    TNG Prime TNG Prime IS a title!

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    It was. Plot holes? Don't exist. Solved them all with no headcanon.
     
  17. tm11176

    tm11176 Well-Known Member

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    Yes!me too!
     
  18. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    Yup. Maybe he thinks his mullet is actually a lion's mane. The Lion King of directors. *ROAR!* 'More explosions!' *ROAR!* Get that kid running around like a spaz!' *ROAR!* 'Scatter additional breasts over there!' ... 'Can someone help me free my dick from the eyepiece of the camera..?'
    Bay may have finally steered the ship into port but he also hit a lot of icebergs along the way, many of which he could've easily avoided if he'd been a better captain.

    A good director can take problems thrown at him by writers and producers and circumstance and work out a good way to get around them and still produce a good movie. A bad director will take all those problems, crash on anyway, and then just blame those other elements for when the movie turns out crap.
     
  19. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Exactly. When you watch the making of on some of Hollywood's most iconic movies you find out about all sorts of problems and nightmares the director had to face. Instead of just hitting the iceberg and blaming someone else the great directors found ways to overcome the problems.

    Some of the problems with the Transformers movies could have been fixed in the editing room so you can't really blame the actors or the writers if the director will not trim the fat or take out the bits that just don't work.
     
  20. jru42287

    jru42287 Where are my testicles, Summer?

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    Honestly, all three. The writers I probably blame the least, though. It's tough being a screenwriter, and we've seen that they need to accommodate all of Bay's stupid shit (such as his genius "wrecking balls" joke). I probably blame Bay the most, but not completely as others do. There were a lot of people involved in the latter two movies, and it impresses me that none of them just stopped and said "Hey, wait a minute. This is fucking stupid."

    I am glad Spielberg had a hand in the first one, since I think his help definitely improved the film though. The whole idea of the movie starting as a story about a boy and his car is very Spielbergian. Probably why I think that's the best of the three, even though it still has it's parts that make me shake my head.
     

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