Who does not care for "Ops and Megs were BFFs once?" (and the show and tell theory)

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by SPLIT LIP, Dec 7, 2011.

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How do you feel about the history of Optimus and Megatron.

  1. I like it.

    77 vote(s)
    83.7%
  2. I would've prefered something else.

    7 vote(s)
    7.6%
  3. I liked it aside from this aspect (elaborate if you would)

    2 vote(s)
    2.2%
  4. That's what this show needs! Batman! Nanananananana-

    6 vote(s)
    6.5%
  1. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    I've been giving thought to the concept art reels they use to tell us about the backstory and in light of the Season 1 twist ending... really... I don't like that Optimus and Megatron were once friends. It cheapens their conflict. I know this sounds weird, but I think it'd be better if they just really, really hated eachother because of the war on Earth. I feel like the once-sympathetic villain card doesn't fit Megatron in the slightest. I know it was done to expand their characters but that's not what it accomplishes. They both feel as though there's no real feelings good or ill between them. Would the Joker and Batman's relationship be "deeper" if they were once buddies? No. It'd be weird. I feel the same here.

    Take BW for example. Optimus and Megatron literally did not know eachother before the show. The first they saw of eachother in person was as a dinosaur and gorilla, and their rivalry was plenty fleshed-out by season one's end. Why? Because we saw them interact rather than be told about it. Which is also something this show likes to do. Tell us about important past events instead of showing it.

    I like this show a lot, but I feel this was the major mis-step aside from Unicron's hi-and-bye appearance.
     
  2. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    I really enjoyed it!:D  I'm really happy that they have what made their relationship so meaningful in Exodus and put it in the show! This proves that the books are in a way connected to the show! I'm looking foward to see if they will expand more on that in Season 2!:D 
     
  3. Mechafire

    Mechafire Veteran

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    I actually like the backstory, though Batman appearing in the show would undoubtedly make it a lot more badass.
     
  4. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    Or better yet, GODZILLA!!!!!:D 
     
  5. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    The only problem is I don't buy it. They never act like they were once friends, they act like any other Megatron and Optimus. There's no difference to be had despite this backstory which comes off fan-fictiony without us being able to see effect of it.

    This is a smart thing you've said.
     
  6. Rexidus

    Rexidus Autobot TFW2005 Supporter

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    I've got to completely disagree with you Split Lip. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and it's completely valid.

    But adding in this friendship does deepen both characters and the conflict as well. You bring up the Joker and Batman, well a better analogy is Xavier and Magneto. Good friends who cannot agree on a major point.

    Part of the reason I feel this works for Megatron is I could never really buy his character. No leader is ever in power long if he constantly kills his own men for merely disagreeing with him or bringing him bad news. With this origin for Megatron it shows that at some point he was attempting to do good. He may have become corrupted by his own ego but deep down he doesn't believe himself to be evil. I highly dislike EVIL characters who are only evil for evil sake. No one is evil like that; not even Hitler.

    And adding in a friendship with Orion shows how far he's come. That the bot who would become Optimus and Megatron agreed on a major goal makes their eventual conflict more personal. It makes it deeper. Instead of just being good vs evil in a very 80's cartoon way it presents a realistic conflict. One where both sides have very valid views. Granted TF Prime does make the Decepticons side more 2 dimensional (the faction, not the characters) than I would like but it still has hints that they aren't just fighting to twist mustaches and loose to the hero.

    I'm sure someone will say this much better than myself, but I think this is one of the best additions to the fiction since the spark.
     
  7. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    Well to be fair the origin of how they met in the one of the episodes from the G1 show doesn't make any sense either. I mean a factory worker gets intrested in a group of thugs lead by Megatron only to get him and his friends almost killed by them and already the factory worker that'll eventully be Optimus seems to know Megatron by heart even thought we only saw a glimphs of them in the flashback. That origin story to me seems more outlandish than in TFP. If the Exodus book is in the TFP universe than it makes loads of sense! But that could be me.


    By the way thanks for thinking that having Godzilla in the show would be awsome!:thumb 
     
  8. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    But that's because those two have compatible characters, but Megatron and Optimus do not. It goes against all logic to say they were once friends. Optimus is a piece of plywood with a mouth and Megatron is gleefully sadistic. It's like, wow, nothing in common.

    And I know what you're going to say, well maybe that wasn't how they always were. Maybe, but we don't know that because we weren't shown that. We've never seen them as friends, only as enemies, so how could we as the audience be expected to believe it?

    Magneto and Prof. X? We saw them as friends, and had circumstances changed they could be friends again. Meagtron and Optimus? Nothing. Optimus made a statement once in Prime, wish I could remember it exactly, but basically said "I was hoping you'd give up your evil ways..." To which I respond roughly: WHAT? They're never shown as even wanting to be friends again or that Megatron would ever change. Like Unicron being Earth I feel it comes compeltely out of nowhere at the end simply to attempt an "epic" finale. Except worse, because it was stated there was an alliance early on, but never expanded appropriately. (Back when they fought in the great war together before Megatron started the great war oh wait)
     
  9. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    But what about the Exodus novel? Hasbro did say that the books were in canon with the show so it does explain a lot about their friendship. Sure not a lot of people can have access to the novels,but what's to say they won't explore more of their backstory in Season 2?
     
  10. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    What about it? The show should be able to stand on it's own feet, not rely on a book for crucial plot elements. An average viewer isn't going to know about Exodus.

    I'm not saying they can't, but as a big twist ending and build-up to a finale it's really lax. Wether they expand or not it doesn't invalidate what I said.
     
  11. Rexidus

    Rexidus Autobot TFW2005 Supporter

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    You are correct. They haven't shown them being friendly. I'll concede that they could have tried harder to display that. Hopefully season 2 will flesh this out but you are correct. Currently it's not the most obvious relationship.

    But if the aligned continuity is anything to go by, Orion Pax and Megatron DID have one MAJOR thing in common in the beginning. Cybertron had a strict caste system that both wanted overthrown. Such a lofty goal can bring people together who wouldn't otherwise. Yes, this has not been mentioned on the show at all and I'm firmly in the camp that the novels, games, and show are not a single continuity, but the aligned continuity does share major points. I would be surprised if this isn't one of them.

    So I'll end with saying I agree that they haven't built this friendship up enough in the show. Perhaps if we had had an episode focus on Optimus that would be different. But I disagree that it feels forced or illogical.

    EDIT: Also from all your posts you seem to be extremely critical of the show already. I suspect even if they had shown this relationship better you would still feel this way because you simply don't want to like this show.
     
  12. Sprocket

    Sprocket Problematic.

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    It's like Prof. X and Magneto, only I don't care.
     
  13. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    I like it. The whole comrades turned enemies thing is a neat plot device.

    They donĀ“t need to be "friends" to have a connection. Only a "teacher/student" relationship is enough.
     
  14. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    This!:thumb  Split Up however did say he likes the show though. I still don't know if he is being overly critical of it to the point that it seems more bad to him than it actually is,but that's my look on it.
     
  15. Anguirus

    Anguirus Well-Known Member

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    That is one lopsided poll...

    Suffice it to say, I rather enjoy this aspect of the two characters. It's one of the few things in the Prime universe that really stands out as a cool unique thing. Of course, it's meant to be the same as in the movie series, but they don't seem willing to flesh it out there (aside from the DotM prequel comic, which was great).

    The reason why Optimus and Megatron don't "act like friends" is because they have been at war for MILLIONS of years. They clearly blame each other for the destruction of Cybertron. There is an advanced case of bitterness and frustration that both are dealing with because they have an instinctual bond (just LOOK at them fight together in the season finale) yet neither can shake the feeling that the whole war would have been different if their friend hadn't had that one thing WRONG with them.

    It's powerful stuff, in my opinion, even though it's mostly subtext. And I think it's a superb way to take advantage of Cullen's and Welker's real-life friendship and respect.

    I don't understand this "if only there were MORE!" attitude I see around here about the Prime four-part season finale. No extra reading is necessary, and the story is all right there in front of you. And it needs to be in that episode because it lets us understand that, unlike any other Megatron, the greatest moment in Prime Megatron's life wouldn't be to kill Optimus. It's getting that second chance to convince him that he's right.
     
  16. moreprimeland

    moreprimeland Optimus told me to do it! Moderator

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    You're bugging about this now??? :p 

    The best part of the whole story was how Ratchet told it!! During his narration, I had a lump in my throat....Jeffrey Combs can certainly VA!!..and the script was a nice piece of work as well.. Yeah, they aligned TFP with Exodus, but I don't have a problem with that..about time to keep some continuity in the TF franchise series--from print to animation.

    It's not all that unusual for past friends to become enemies...one feels betrayed by the other..usually due to greed for money, power, prestige, or even land/kingdoms, so why wouldn't that be a possible theme for Prime's and Megs background? Also, the recurring theme of "free will" added another reason for the dissolution of their friendship, Optimus chose one path and Megs another...and both are willing to fight to the death to defend their ideals...plus it makes for some exciting episodes for us to enjoy. :thumb 
     
  17. Wrecker217

    Wrecker217 Heart Like a Hand Grenade

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    i like how you included batman in the poll.
     
  18. ahunmaster

    ahunmaster Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. This is what I want to see in Season 2. I want to see Megatron arguing with Orion on a level of communication, not with weapons. This will give us a good insight into both characters and what drives them.

    I don't want the same old "Defend the weak/conquer the universe" sort of reasoning. I want to see how their experiences back on Cybertron - Orion in the Records Hall, Megatron in the Arena - makes them who they are now.
     
  19. Torque

    Torque The WORDSMITH

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    I like it alot! gives them a true history together, makes some of their moments more interesting and badass, like the scenes inside Unicron when they were fighting the drones-each slow motion shot made me realize how close the two must have been back in the day.
     
  20. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    I like it. It's some I've liked since TF 2007. It's something I've been wanting to see since TF 2007 and I'm finally getting it and I'm happy. I don't think it cheapens it, I really love the whole "once brothers" angle, it reminds me of Prince of Egypt (a really badass movie that everybody should watch).
     

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