Nice post.

I've been down this road before; and of course, people have to chime in with their clever spin and crap.

Bla bla bla... kinda like the claptrap "people hate / afraid of change" bla bla bla...

In my mind, if disliking something because it's different is bad or shallow, then liking something because it's different is just as shallow.

I don't mind change; I just didn't like those changes. If I didn't like change, then I would naver have liked Beast Wars.

 

"crap"???The same could be said about your opinions on the show, except the clever part 

 

They were instantly different. Defining characteristics of a person do not change suddenly. In the 1986 movie everything was falling apart for the Autobots. Optimus was killed, the Matrix was stolen, Cybertron belonged to the Decepticons, and there was a giant Planetoid robot trying to devour their homeworld....yet they remained the same because you are who you are. And it would take more than 2 seasons worth of "bummer times" for such a group to undo years of being who they were. Optimus Primal crash landed on earth in episode one of Beast Wars with the same personality he ended with. Relationships and opinions altered, but even Dinobot continued to be the same basic "person" up until his demise. Your argument fails.

You're right. There were also glass tubes which used to be used for transportation. However if you recall there was a computer at the core, and to my best recollection, each time they had ventured into the center of Cybertron (including in headmasters) they were walking through hallways which were metallic. The point is I don't recall any organic substances or what we would consider to be rock. Even the big mushroom in Kaon was mechanical.

Considering the terrible ratings and reaction it received from the GRAND majority of audiences...it is pretty safe to say that it was terrible. I don't like Animated, but at least it has redeeming values and some one can actually back up why they like it for other reasons than "great character development and a dark storyline". Beast Machines was a terrible show which under any other banner than Transformers would not have seen a full first season.

That was actually a comparison not an analogy. But it's all good. I am passionate about my hate of Beast Machines. But I would never hold liking it against anyone. I am simply compelled to berate the show at every possible convenience. (However I would not attack it in "pro Beast Machines threads" as that is in bad taste lol). Beast machines was the biggest Transformers letdown of my life and it infuriates me to think about the corruption of my dear sweet childhood by this vile writing and uninspired CGI catastrophe.

My main gripe with this character development angle is that it was a sudden and very drastic change for most characters. Had the show been an all new cast which began with episode 1 of Beast machines I would absolutely agree with you. The characters did not lack depth, however development entails a pathway from point A to point B. The changes in relationships and opinions I mentioned earlier are character development. It took from episode 1 of Beast Wars until his eventual death for the Maximals to see the full extent of Dinobots virtues. His attitude and behavior didn't change when he uttered the Maximal activation code. I just can't get behind anything the writers had to use amnesia to explain the plot holes....its just lazy.

Considering the amount of people claiming that Beast machines gets better with age, and the fact that it has been a number of years since I have watched it the entire way through, I am going to locate and view the episodes in order to see if I still despise it, or if I was simply too young or <insert a million other possible reasons here> to realize what an animated goldmine of intellectual and developmental genius I was witnessing.

If I change my mind I will admit it. As I had to with Animated. I still hate human villains and the Animation....and Prowl...but the series did get 100000% better once Megatron was assembled, and I did find myself enjoying the G1 references, actual Robot on Robot battles, and pretty much everything involving Starscream and his clones. So we shall see.

But in the end, remember, those who enjoyed Beast machines are in the most minute of minorities, and the analogy involving going with the masses being a bad thing would be the worst analogy of the year...but we are only 6 days in so there will surely be worse lol.

 

They all awoke to a world and a realization that the world they were now living in was " instantly different".

And that it was most blikely their fault.

they do in some cases, particulaly when the world around them has chsnged suddenly.

Sorry but this is completly irrelevent.

Change effects different people different ways.Besides, the 86 film , thou written with a more mature theme then the series, still sufferered from the sigmatizem of being a 80's story.

Plots were relativity simple, you knew who the good guys were, they always won in the end and the plots were simple to follow.

You really cant compair the writting of the 86 film to that of Beast Machines.

Done you see, the same can all be used to show how there was less character development in Beast Wars.

The fact that there was very little change in their personalities after all the things they went trew, particularly Primal who died, shows a lack of true development.

Your argument fails when seen trew that lite.

I know 

Then you need to do some more recalling.

Season 3's "Dweller in the Depths" showed us the deepest center of Cybertron, where the Transorgsanics were stored.

The surrounding area was made of rock, not metal.

We also saw in season 3 that Cybertron had water and fish, althu it could have been transplanted.

"majority"??

Even Beast Wars was hated by the majority at first.

Many here have admited to not liking it at first but now loving it.

Sorry bud but again, the argument fails.

I feel that way about Armada and the Animorphs toyline.

 

Well played! I concede this point entirely. I think I just tried very hard to forget about the techno-organic energy vampires that dwelled within the depths of Cybertron.

I don't recall the fish in season 3..were they mechanical like on Quintessa or organic...either way I suppose this does give some (see how I down play this lol) credit to the idea that organic life could spring up. Even if the water was not H2O it could live off of other elements....I am sure the writes of Beast Machines were unaware of this fact, but it does lessen my nurd rage and butt-hurtedness towards the series slightly.

The day is yours...but I shall return! Moohoohahahaha!

 

I dont blame you.

It was hard to tell.

To me they looked like Earth fish.

Its from "Grimlocks new brain".

I'm not so sure the writters were completely unaware.

There are a good number of little nods to G1 stories spread all threw out the BM's series.

And I shall be waiting......indeed.

 

Actually, I recall some of the writers of the series mentioning at a Con that the show actually got pretty solid ratings, at least initially. The problem was that by aiming the show to an older audience, they might have gotten solid ratings, but those people watching the show weren't the kind going out and buying toys.

After all, would Fox have picked up Robots in Disguise if the prior Transformers had been an absolute bomb?

And if you are referring to critical reaction, well, to most fans anything outside the status quo is terrible.
Beast Wars was terrible according to the "majority"
Armada was terrible according to the "majority"
Animated was especially awful according to the "majority".
And we can't forget the "travesty", according to the "majority" that was the first TRansformers live action film.


Don't like Beast Machines, fine, but you ARE the one saying you are "compelled" to post how you much you hate the series, and some people have different likes.

 

Y'know, seems to me that you might have grown up with Beast Wars, and when Beast Machines came out, you just got pissed off that the series dared go in a different direction and have an irrational resentment towards it because of that.

Might as well start a thread "Who should we Blame for G1 season 3?" as that is kind of what I"m seeing from you.

 

Umm..excuse me, but KWFlange did not start this thread/topic.

Bathawk did.

 

I didn't start the thread bud. Please at least pretend to have consulted page 1 before pointing the lazy finger.

And of course Beast Machines had initial success. There were tons of Beast Wars fans who expected to see the story pick up on Cybertron. It was just going to be freshened up a bit by the lack of limited time in robot mode and the new surroundings....and then we received what we received.

Most deviations from what people consider to be the norm are initially met with resistance. However Beast Wars, The Unicron trilogy, And even Animated and bayformer Explosion fest have proven that they have some merit. The problem is however less that people cannot cope with change, it is that Beast Machines took the familiar and changed it without warning. Unlike all of those other continuities, it WAS the Beast Wars crew and WAS a continuation of the Beast Wars storyline to the point where it could have just been Beast Wars season 4. The problem was that it was completely different...to the point where had they changed the cast's names it would have been a different show.

 

I grew up with G1, but I was still young (12-ish) when Beast Wars came out. I actually took an immediate liking to Beast Wars because it was a new cool continuity with so much unknown...that and I was just happy to see Transformers on TV again. but yes, I do resent the changes made with Beast machines. It ruined the 3 solid years of Beast Wars. =)

Lol...I should. But I'd hate to have to suffer the flashbacks of Rodimus' suicide attempts again...I just wanted him to be as heroic on the TV as he was when i was playing with his toy....*sob*

 

We don't "blame" anyone. We offer them our sincerest gratitude for one of the best TF shows ever.

 

Yes, crap.

 

....as in the value of your post on the subject.

Not trying ton offend , but thats how your post are coming off.

 

Beast Machines wasn't THAT bad.

I mean, it's not like it was Armada or Energon.

 

The Unicron Trilogy can't keep my attention long enough for me to hate them lol. I keep sitting down with the intent to watch through from Armada - Cybertron and failing due to "I'd rather do anything else" syndrome.

But I can't complain too much about them, I liked Pokemon in its heyday. Don't see why it should be any different when you add my favorite childhood cartoon/toy concept on top of it.

 

Then re-read my post. Disect it. Analyze it. See *exactly* what it is that I am calling "crap".

And, while you are at it, recite to *me* what exactly *my* opinion is.

 

It appears that what your calling "crap" is what you judge as anyone's attempt to JUSTIFY likeing the series.

An attempt someone made to lay out why they enjoy the series you labeled as "spin",as if it had no validaty.

You question the idea of what some people call "character development" , implying that what we got wasnt truly that.

I'd say, over all, you didnt like the series.

You also seem to think the argument, that only those that dont like change hated the series, is crap.

 

I fixed it, and I apologize

To be fair   Armada got halfway decent after the halfway point when Unicron came in. Energon has been the ONLY TF series I fell asleep watching new episodes.

 

See, this all falls to personal preference.

I found nothing about Armada enjoyable, I though Energon was better, but still sucked.Cybertron...just as bad.