Sure we know guys like the Thirteen, Vector Prime, Alpha Trion, Fallen, etc, etc... I'm not looking for the truly ancient and primal types. I'm just thinking of established guys that we've had around since G1 that might have a few years on them, enough to be considered as having some experienced and know-how. We know that Ironhide, Kup, Optimus and Megatron are all pretty damn old... but are there any other Autobots (or Cons) who seem like they might have been around for a good long time? I don't necessarily want citations from old episodes, DW or IDW comics... according to some of those sources, MOST of the Autobots are older than Optimus, which I think is kind of lame. I'm thinking in terms of their original Tech Specs and character concepts... were there any others that were mentioned as being veterans or whatever? If you saw a flashback to Optimus' life before he became Prime, who might you expect to see there? I'm thinking Hound maybe... I could see im as the wise, down-to-earth old backwoods guide type guy. Or maybe Ratchet, who has the bedside manner of a gruff old country doctor, and isn't above telling Optimus what's what. Huffer and Gears both have that "grumpy old guy" thing going, but who knows? Perceptor is the absent-minded professor... but does that make him old? Any others to add? zmog
Y'know, I've never really got where this idea that Kup and Ironhide were of similar age came from. Ironhide comes off of a similar age to prime. Kup, I think is by far the oldest of the current functioning transformers. He's seen it all. I always liked the idea of megatron being pretty old. Makes starscreams role of a young upstart who thinks he can be in power all the better.
I get the 'old' vibe from Trailbreaker, out of the original cast from MTMTE. Ironhide struck me as the equivalent to late 40's on human age. G1 Ratchet didn't look or sound old, no thanks to the generic G1 face and voice anyway.
Yeah, this is an ongoing debate, but my personal fan interpretation is that Ironhide was the codger in the unit, the old campaigner... and maybe Kup was a friend of his... perhaps even a bit younger. But then Ironhide went into space with the Ark crew, crashed on Earth, and took a several-million-year nap. By the time he wakes up, and gets back into contact with Cybertron, he's still old... but Kup has been functioning the whole time... and wears millions of years of war on his face and joints. Kup's the old codger now, but when he sees Ironhide again for the first time, it's like his old war buddy has returned from the dead, looking exactly the same as he did when he left that day milions of years ago. On the G1 cartoon, Ratchet at least had a sort of gravelly voice, but it's true he didn't look old. In the Marvel comics, he was often portrayed as if he were sort of young and naive. It's mainly his TechSpec description that paints him as the gruff ol' doc. I'm not sure how to interpret Trailbreaker. He could be old... he's slow and burns up too much fuel. But these days, I sort of see him as more of a chubby awkward guy (if viewed in terms of human comparisons). He cracks jokes to cover for the fact that he's really insecure about his value to the team, and to me that seems a bit more like a younger bot's behaviour. But he could be one of the senior Ark bots too. zmog
Animated Ratchet no doubt, and Prime from any other continuity except for Animated. And quite obvious Kup is an old guy.
I'll agree w/ you on your selections. Since you don't want IDW/DW pickings. I don't think Ratchet's (and thus Wheeljack) quite as old as Kup & Ironhide, but I do think they're a bit older than Prime & about the same age as Megatron. - Going G1, cartoon. Going comic.... it gets even messier. Of the "currently functioning" Autobots - Kup gets it hands down - cuz he seems to have come online before/same time as the other "older" Bots - but as mentioned, he stayed active vs. the other "older" Bots taking a temporary dirt-nap. Hence the problems he has in Spotlight:Kup (which I hope they reference/update down the line). As for Ultra Magnus - I think it depends on who you view him to be. If he's Dion, he would be the same age as Optimus Prime - which is older end, but not oldest. If Prime's brother, same. If just another long-time soldier - it could go either way, but I feel a *slightly* younger vibe from him. Just as Wrecker-Springer is older than his G1 version. As usual, the source of one's "support" for POV strongly colors the argument.
I would say that Prime isn't really that old, compared to Ironhide and Kup. In Dreamwave and IDW, guys like Prowl and Bluestreak were portrayed as already being part of the war by the time Optimus succeeded Sentinel. And Prime was always portrayed as being much younger than Megatron; in G2, The Liege Maximo referred to Megatron as "the first Decepticon."
Your reference points are all legitimate... or at least as legitimate as any other part of this mixed up canon of ours. I always see Prime as older... especially G1 Prime. Later series tend to portray him as a younger, more ambitious hero, but I always interpreted him as a revered father-figure. References to his boundless intelligence and wisdom, and comparisons to Abraham Lincoln in the original full Tech Spec profile also convey that. Also, I have a particular aversion to one aspect that keeps coming back in his various "origin" stories... that is, he always seems like a young, naive, relatively powerless character, who BAM! gets the matrix or whatever, and instantly becomes this wise and powerful leader. Maybe it's just me, but I can't stand that "chosen one instant power without having to work for it" storyline. That works fine for superheroes... Peter Parker getting bitten by the spider, etc... but TF is a war story, and I always felt that Prime should come into his status as the result of proving his wisdom, leadership, compassion, etc... over a long period of time, rather than having it all zapped into him by the Matrix. Kind of like the way that Anakin Skywalker goes from being a brash, whiny kid to full-on Darth frickin' Vader after one damn surgery. But I'm going OT in my own thread... it's true that Bluestreak is described as being haunted by the destruction of his home city... but he's also described by Hound as a "boy" in his extended Tech Spec, so I tend to see him as a younger character (and assuming that the war has been raging for a very very long time, it's quite possible that his city wasn't destroyed right at the beginning). This quote also makes Hound seem more like an old soldier too. I also see Prowl as being a young, elite officer type, though he could certainly be older as well. He's in the Autobot top brass, so it's conceivable that he's been around for a long time, and paid his dues. zmog
Omega Supreme! Yeah! Good call! I'd forgotten about him. Heyyyyy... waitaminute... isn't this discussion a bit "too far" for you? zmog
Don't forget the original thirteen as well. *whoops, didn't read the first post.* Well, Omega Supreme in the IDW comic is from the days of Nova Prime, who preceded Sentinel as well, so he's gotta be quite old and all. Also, in the cartoon the Guardian Robots were around long in the golden age of Cybertron, and Omega was one of them. Though that would also place Constructicons and Megs quite old too.
The production bible used for the show does give us some insight into this question #1 Ironhide: PROFILE: Oldest, toughest, most battle-tested. tough old guy #2 Ratchet: PROFILE: Likes to party (so maybe not as old as suggested by some but who knows) Ok I guess it doesnt alude to age as much as I thought it might....lol
Here is what it says about the others mentioned in this thread so far... Optimus Prime: leader ABILITIES: Largest and most powerful of all Autobots; an awesome fighting machine. PROFILE: Wisdom is his main power thrust...motivated by immense kindness and compassion...personality might be likened to Abraham Lincoln. Feels his role is the protection of all life, including Earth-life. Fights unceasingly to defeat the Decepticons Ratchet: repairman PROFILE: Likes to party, give backtalk, but does job as well as anyone. Sometimes his readiness to have a good time intereferes with effectiveness. Trailbreaker: jokester PROFILE: Practical joker and cheerleader...makes light of anysituation, no matter how serious. Because he is the most fuel-consuming member, considers himself a liability...often asks to beleft behind. Often mopes about his handicaps, but his bravery anddefensive prowess is unquestioned. Wheeljack: mad scientist PROFILE: "Mad scientist" of the Autobots forces, constantly inventing new weapons and gadgets. His own worst enemy...often injured while experimenting with new weapons. Prowl: patient & logical ABILITIES: Has most sophisticated logic center of all Autobots...can analyze and advises on complex combat situations almost instantaneously. PROFILE: Quiet, competent, loyal, endlessly patient. Will not be deterred until the task is completed, regardless of the obstacles. Strives to find reason and logic in everything. A listener, not a talker. Hound: close to human PROFILE: Taken with the natural wonders of Earth, vastly preferring them to Cybertron. Brave, fearless loyal Autobot, but secretly desires to be human. Megatron PROFILE: Totally lacking in compassion, no comprehesion of mercy. A malignant combination of brute strength, ruthlessness and terror. Driven to cominate Cybertron completely plus complete subjugation of all other life-forms throughout the universe he arrogantly assumes inferior...total destruction of Autobot striking forces remaining on Cybertron and all Autobots on Earth. Determined to possess all of Earth's resources Shockwave PROFILE: Caretaker of Cybertron...no greater ambitions. No emotions--undeviating in following Megatron's orders. Self-programmed to destroy any unidentified creature who attempts to penetrate boundaries for which he is responsible. Huffer: pessimist PROFILE: Grumbly, dour, pessimistic..."He looks at the world through sludge-colored windshields." Says it can't be built, then builds anyway. Not too socialble, but absolutely reliable. Gears: complainer PROFILE: The complainer of the group...hates everything about Earth. A self-proclaimed misfit...finds fault in everything and everyone. Acts this way to help cheer up others as they try to cheer him. Perceptor: Brilliant but absent-minded PROFILE: Unquenchable thirst for knowledge - seeks it to exclusion of all else. Main role is to study how best the Autobots can adapt to Earth. Absent-minded. Often has problems with his lenses - a weakness.
Pointblank is a veteran on the same level as Kup according to his toy Bio... a soldier's soldier who yearns for the end of wars.
Well, for me Silverbolt is at least the same age as Ironhide, his whole looks gives me the idea that he in an older model than most autobots, also soundwave gotta be old, but his inexpressive character doesn't help to determine his age.
Please read prior posts...There is no debate - Ironhide is the oldest, no one is older or the same age... I agree that soundwave always seemed old to me too
Even in the G1 cartoon, though, it was implied that Prime is from a different era than Megatron. When they fight on the dam, Prime refers to Megatron as being outdated and such. And Orion Pax is clearly younger than Megatron.
