Same here. I also felt it was appropriate to the military/special forces genre that GIJOE has ALWAYS been part of. Ninjas and commandos don't just beat people up and shoot the guns out of their hands. The GIJOE comics always kept it real (well in the early years at least), so for me it wasn't jarring to see GIJOEs killing Cobras... it was like coming home again. It's the way it was always meant to be.

WORD. This "scan a new alt mode" bullshit has to end. Like, NOW.

And yeah, I like the idea of form following function as far as alt-modes go. I'm also not a big fan of extreme mass-shifting.

zmog

 

Well the "one and done" bit mixed with the overall, slowly growing, main story is pretty much what I suggested. Though going with a more JL-ish many-multi-parter type show would work too. Where there were 2-3 part mini-arcs within the main season main arc mixed with single-shot episodes. Pretty much something like that is the best way to tell a story and fill an XX number of episodes needed for a full season.

And I agree with the asthetics bit.

And this. Changing of one's alt mode should be something major and not done at will. And mass-shifting should just not be used, at all.

 

Still with the Gun-hate. Yay for Gun megs and Yay for Mass shifting... especially with the new blaster/tapes keychain designs as updated devices, mass-shift their brains out. Didn't bother me then and still doesn't today.

 

Batman style. I always did want to see Transformers turn into 1940's vehicles.

 

I like see tf gundam series

 

I don't see a problem with mass shifting. I liked that Megatron was a gun. Just a plain simple gun. It was always cool to see the reactions of the humans when they picked up a small item only to turn into a big ass robot. I don't think it will work in a live action movie, but in a cartoon you can do anything.

 

Larry Hama would do well to write some TF story lines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Hama

 

Somehow not so surprising coming from the guy with "PRETENDERS RULE!" in his avatar.  

I have a nostalgic love for Megatron and Soundwave and their authentic mini alt-modes... but that's all it is. The truth is, I've never liked mass shifting. It honestly bugged me quite a bit when I was a little kid... probably more than it does now even, since that was before I'd formed the rose-tinted rearview mirrors we all get wit age.

I understand that it's always going to have a place of sorts in Transformers, and I appreciate that some writers (like Furman recently) have tried to incorporate the science of it into the scenario... but I still believe the less mass-shifting, the better off we are.

Me too. Well, I mean, not specifically, but I'd REALLY like to see some TFs that transform into classic vehicles, rather than only the newest stuff. That's why Classic Camaro BB was cool, why Cybertron Downshift was cool, the Laser Rods were cool, etc...

Bring on the WWII airplanes and 50's classic cars!  

I love Larry Hama. He's dreamy.  

zmog

 

Well, one thing to bear in mind is that in Japan itself, TakaraTomy would really do with at least trying to compete in that arena - while it's ok to have the odd Device label or Alternity figures, there is almost no media content to support any such material, and those that have come before (such as Super Link and Galaxy Force) have been up and down in quality...

...but not once have approached the same level that shows like Gundam 00 and Macross Frontier are considered to be at.


(Even if taking on the mighty Gundam juggernaut is, perhaps, a step too far, TakaraTomy could still make more with the brand than they have done to this point, media-wise.)


So, if a new show could be made for both Japanese and Western markets, and given the kind of story and image approach that worked for 00, it would be a start.

 

But when I see new designs like the new japanese releases, and also the Movie's 'spy' line it still shows how hand-held human items still make sense as a way for transformers to disguise. infact, I felt Frenzy's head becoming the cellphone and hiding in the purse was really smart and was a good way to avoid a mass-shifting effect that would have felt out of place in the movie.

So I think those alt-modes are not totally obsolete as a concept and still a valid part of TF mythos. And i really like Shockwave's Gun and even browning's gun mode. Even if not for Megs, I don't have a blanket disgust for all guns or all mini-alt modes. Gun megs has made lots of sense in many of the GIJOE crossovers and the mass-shifting simply doesn't bother me.

I mean come on... Shrink-rays have been a comedic plot device and technology in thousands of series even though it is utter rubbish. The transformers even shrunk themselves to enter Megatron that one episode. As a fictional series, I am not sure why some people are so militant anti-shrinking. It is not that big of a suspension of disbelief to think it is any more of a SCIFI tech than teleporting or holograms. Hell, even Star trek had an episode where they shrunk a Shuttlecraft and scooted around and they are basically the litmus test for fictional technology. It was common as pie in the 80s and still to this day. Batman just had a friggin Shrinking episode and has a super hero that does it all day long. I just don't buy the genuine 'it bothered me' when every single cartoon series growing up had the exact same fictional shrinking technology.

And I like Pretenders. I want A Mcfarlane series figures based off of pretenders. It is part of the franchise and was ret-conned to be the pre-cursor to the beast wars technology so I am fine with it. And we all seem to accept beast modes and the protection the organic gives TFs.

 

Speaking of Pretenders, I use Masterforce-esque Pretender tech at the core of two of my fics - and I'd consider both it and mass-shifting in general to be (potentially) explained by having each Cybertronian possess a personalized pocket of subspace where the balance of the bio-mechanical mass could be 'stored'.


It worked for the TARDIS.


And I would love to see a Figma Metalhawk one day!

 

You know the next series should have the title of....

Transformers: Legends

I was thinking of expanding the title to Legends of Cybertron, but then people would mistaken it for the G1 non-transformable toy line.

 

Amen on the mass shifting. There will always be mass shifting and even morphing. It's not just Megatron or Soundwave shrinking to their alt modes. It's any robot that transformed. Where did Prime's wheels go? They just kind of shrunk and folded into his hips. When Bumblebee would transform into his alt mode, his feet to kind of fill out into the hood. To me, mass shifting was a way for the animation to look good for both robot AND alt mold. What if they made the G1 cartoon toy accurate?

 

I dont want it like any of these

 

I think we're getting off subject by talking about mass shifting rather than what design/art/style aesthetic a possible new show should be like. Lets just get back to discussing the look of the new show. Any other ideas of other shows besides the ones listed that anyone would like?

 

Solrac you said it perfectly. Agree 110%.

 

As quite a few people pointed out, Frenzy's head transforming into the cellphone wasn't exactly a convincing transition either. Plus that whole "I can be anything I want, within seconds" trans-scanning thing certainly got on my nerves.

Hand-held items nothing. If you can shrink to the size of a handgun or a digital camera, why bother transforming at all? Just shrink yourself down to the form of a miniature robot, and then run around stealthily on your own.
 

I think this is one of those schisms that has always been in the fandom, since day one. Some people like mass-shifting, while others are bothered by it. I can personally accept it in very specialized circumstances... as in Furman's IDW, where "mass displacement" was a very rare and extremely energy-consumptive technology.

The notion that every TF just happens to have his own personal pocket dimension to which he can shunt off abstract particles of mass, becomes so completely incredible, convoluted and spanky... so removed from the simple act of physically transforming through the "magic" of moving parts, that it threatens to capsize my entire suspension of disbelief.

Because shrink-rays and shrinking stories are ALREADY stupid enough, but making this goofy plot device so prosaic that every TF does it at whim, crosses a line for me. Yes, there are liberties taken in the artwork and animation shortcuts, but the more we try to "explain" these absurdities with fan-magic pseudoscience, the more pathetic it becomes. The more fantastical Transformers gets, the less I can bring myself to care about it, since a big part of the appeal is taking such an outlandish concept and making it more credible, solid, believable... more easy to relate to.

Did you just say that about Star Trek? Did you really? Wow.

We should make a list of everything that was "even done on Star Trek"... that bastion of restrained, serious, realistic Sci-Fi, and see how many things on the list just makes us roll our eyes in ridicule.

Also, the overuse of teleporting and holographic camouflage in Furman's run bugged me too. The more commonplace you make such things, the more it kills the enthusiasm for them.

Buy it. Different show. Different concept. Different paradigm. You shouldn't try to cram every single gimmick into one property and expect it to fly. There are limits.

But then, I guess some people weren't bothered when GIJOE became about nothing but ninjas, robots and outer space. Wow, what's with some people? Don't they watch Star Wars? I can't imagine why they wouldn't want Star Wars in their GIJOE! [/sarcasm]

I don't. Actually, I can't even bring myself to acknowledge Beast Wars as part of my "personal canon". Quite simply, it is dead to me. It might as well be another franchise entirely.

Frankly, Beast Wars is overhyped to the max. If it's really the best writing the TF franchise has to offer, then I have to say it's a pretty shitty fiction we've got. To Mainframe's credit, they did what they could with the premise, but it's a dumb premise.

Though I confess I might have been more open to it without all the lousy "He-Man" style names they clearly spent no effort coming up with...  

Pretenders can work, but the concept needs to be pretty seriously explored, because otherwise it's so full of holes and questions that it distracts way too much. If we view Pretenders as being a very unique type of transformer, along the Japanese lines, rather than the Marvel Comics version, there is some potential there. Kind of a merging of mass-shifting and proto-Beast Wars organic shell tech... but it's still a stretch.

Plus they were shitty toys.  

See this is something that bugs me... taking animation shortcuts, and making them into fan-canon leads to all sorts of nonsense. Obviously there has always been a certain amount of artistic license, but using mass-shifting and sub-space pockets to explain where Prime's wheels went? Dude, Prime's wheels didn't go anywhere. It's called a cheat. The animators were just too busy to draw them. Seriously.  

I believe that the more you compromise your robot design to hide elements of the alt-mode, the more you detract from the whole appeal of the concept. It's all about seeing how this robot came out of that car, or truck, or whatever.

But then there's a whole segment of the fandom who would prefer to ignore the fact that TFs are still fundamentally ROBOTS. They aren't interdimensional energy beings. They aren't big metal humanoids wearing helmets, and with boxes stuck to them. F*** nanotech... they can't magically turn into whatever they want. They aren't organic. They don't have males and females. They don't have sex. They're self-aware alien machines...

I would bet that some of the distinction between fans can be found between those who were initially drawn to the franchise through the toys, and those drawn in through the cartoon... but I suspect the main schism in the fandom is between those who want to see stories about Transformers, and those who want to BE Transformers.  

zmog

 

Resolute style would be great, but could it be budgeted for an entire season of full length episodes? Though Resolute did restore my faith in American 2D animation.

Gundam: No HELL NO! TFs are not gundams, end of story.

Batman TAS: So like Big O you mean? It could be done, but I think it would be difficult to hold that Film Noir style with giant robots and simultaneously cover the wide range of personalities in the TF universe.

The rest you can chalk up as "oh god no" Unless you mean the original clone wars by the creator of Samurai Jack and not the cheap CGI abomination being put out now. If it's Samurai Jack TFs that could be good, but much as I said with the Batman one, can they really hold that highly stylistic feel for an entire series and be true to the variety of Transformers characters?

the Resolute style is the only one that I think could really translate to Transformers well given that it relies mainly on high quality art, rather than stylization for its substance. The division created by Animated I think shows the faults of going super stylized.

 

Well, if you ever try either of the fics in my sig, I've tried to expand upon the concept quite a bit - indeed, it's central to the development of both.

Hey, it was the 80s... but at least Metalhawk looked cool.


Ideally, I'd like new transformable figures for the bio-mech forms, and Figma action figures for the Pretender-forms themselves.

(For example, the Figma Saber Lily, well... she speaks for herself!)

 

They restored your faith in American animation by finally faithfully copying Japanese animation?  

I actually don't really know what this means. I mostly agree with what you've said, but besides a knee-jerk Gundam hate-on, what is it about the cross-pollination of TFs with serious Japanese mecha space operas that feels so wrong?

Unfortunately, even by 80's toy conventions, Pretenders were a bit lame. A brick-like sub-standard action figure, with a sub-standard transforming robot hidden inside? Ummm...  

I guess I've always been into Transformers for the mecha, so naturally Pretenders don't appeal to me much.

I guess that's why "McFarlane level" Pretender figures wouldn't tempt me for a second... because they'd wouldn't be Transformers. They'd just be goofy hyper-detailed fantasy figures. If I'd wanted something like that, I would have stuck with Masters of the Universe.  

Though I have to agree those Figma figures look pretty damn sweet. I like cool action figures... I just don't feel like they need to be integrated with my robots.  

zmog