which robotech?

Discussion in 'Video Games and Technology' started by tapestry100, May 24, 2006.

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  1. tapestry100

    tapestry100 poke a badger w/a spoon TFW2005 Supporter

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    so - i'm looking to pick up the complete robotech series on dvd, and i know there are several versions available and i was wondering which version ppl thought was the better version - i went to robotech.com and saw that they had 4 different versions, and i don't know which one i should go with

    any suggestions?? thanks!
     
  2. Dalarsco

    Dalarsco Kickback=ROCK

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    I'm no expert, but I've heard the ones labelled Macross are better than the ones labelled Robotech, as they are a more direct translation from Japanese while Robotech is sliced up a lot.
     
  3. Gryph

    Gryph Action Master

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    I believe he's wanting a collection of all three Robotech shows. Not just the first.
     
  4. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    Then I'd suggest getting the ones marked "Macross", "Southern Cross" and "Mospeada".

    The purpose of Robotech was to substitute for Macross, which didn't have enough episodes for American TV syndication. It is nolonger needed.
     
  5. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

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    The legacy collection sets are the broadcast vesions with extras, the remastered sets are the new tarted up versions without extras and the Protoculture collection is the remastered episodes with the legacy extras.

    If you want the original Japanese shows they made it out of rather then Robotech, then you want what flamepanther said. The ADV Macross releases have new dubs and are still coming out, the previous release just have subtitles and are still around.
     
  6. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    The ADV sets also have nicer boxes. However, the AnimEigo sets have slightly higher quality video and significantly higher quality audio.

    Seriously though, wanting Robotech instead of the originals is like wanting Warriors of the Wind instead of Nausicaa. It didn't improve the story any, detracts from the artistic integrity of the work, and introduces its own stupid set of extra plot holes. Besides that, Macek is a just plain bad storyteller, prone to relentless verbal diarrhea and exposition.
     
  7. tapestry100

    tapestry100 poke a badger w/a spoon TFW2005 Supporter

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    thanks for the input - especially on the robotech vs macross comparison - seems that i'll be looking at the original japanese versions of these

    and nice comparison on the nausicaa/warriors reference flamepanther - if it is that kind of difference, i'll definitely be skipping the robotech versions for sure!
     
  8. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    In some circles, Robotech is held up as the penultimate example of bad anime editing. It retains enough of the original plot lines from Macross and Mospeada that you can't say they created their own story from the footage, but keep in mind they had to at least change things enough to connect three unrelated stories. They take it beyond enough changes to just do that though. For example, in Macross the "Protoculture" is an anicent spacefaring race that became the ancestor of all known culture across the galaxy, while in Robotech "protoculture" is a fuel source made from a mystical plant. In Macross, humans have "reaction weapons", as in fusion or matter/antimatter reactions. Robotech replaces them with "reflex" weapons, which... just doesn't make any sense. The list goes on, but I'll spare you. :wink: 
     
  9. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

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    If I was getting into the originals, I probably wouldent bother with Southern Cross. Most of Masters bored me to tears and I just can't imagine that an interesting show exists with that footage, even after reading what the changes were.
     
  10. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    I've heard that if anything, Southern Cross/Masters is the only part that might have actually benefited any from Robotech... and that's only because it's sandwiched between two shows that were actually good. I've not seen Southern Cross either, but Robotech Masters was horrible. The only thing worse was the aborted Sentinels "movie", which was one of the most painful viewing experiences of my life, or maybe the Megazone/Southern Cross hybrid movie that I've never seen but was so bad that even Harmony Gold has refused to ever release it on video or DVD.
     
  11. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    all i have to say, is i prefered Robotech's "Dub" to the New macross Dub. even though i've seen Macross, i still prefer Robotech. that's just me.
     
  12. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    hey now i liked the robotech master's saga that was my favorite part!
     
  13. ginrai

    ginrai lost with no way home.

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    If You want Robotech.. Get Robotech.. you can get the Protoculture edition which is all the episodes, + Sentinals + all the special features from the orginal DVD release sets... for like 80$


    You have to understand, Macross fans can't stand when people actually want to watch Robotech. I don't know why, its personal preference..
     
  14. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    i own all of robotech, and i actually enjoy it, very much.
     
  15. ginrai

    ginrai lost with no way home.

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    I do too, I have seen Macross and Mospeda all the way through too.. But I still prefer Robotech.
     
  16. wheeljack01

    wheeljack01 Happiness is a warm gun

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    It's all about preference.
     
  17. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    I guess you wanted this?

    It would be much simpler if it was all about taste and preference, but it's not. Choosing between orange and blue is a simple matter of preference. Choosing between a good steak and a good steak that's been stepped on by a trucker could be called a matter of preference, and in a way it really is, but it also becomes a matter of sense and of principle. Robotech has been stepped on by a trucker.

    I used to like Robotech, back when it was the only version I was allowed access to. I've seen it. I enjoyed it. I've read the books. I have just as much claim to the "I've seen both, and I like mine better" card, but I can back it up with a lot more than that. For old time's sake, I'll start by being generous. I won't even go into my usual rant about how questionable the ethics are of taking another author's work and just fucking with it willy-nilly without their approval.

    There is one strength Robotech could be said to have over Macross. Two if you're watching them both dubbed in English. The Robotech voice track is of marginally better acting quality than the Macross dub (yes, only marginally--two words hold it back severely: Reba West). That's because ADV dubbed it in-house instead of giving it to a studio with some actual talent, and has no bearing on the quality of the writing or the story, i.e. the actual quality of the original show. Most people should be able to tell the difference in acting quality, and Robotech fans especially like to point it out. One could "prefer" bad acting over good acting (ADV's directors sure seem to), but I think we can agree this is absurd. The English dub problem is a new issue though, and is easily fixed by not using the English dub track when watching Macross. Let's look at the other main issue Robotech fans tout over Macross.

    Ah, the "multigenerational sci-fi epic" spin. I understand the appeal of a long epic space opera, but if you're feeling that in full effect from Robotech, I'm sorry but you've been duped. I envy your suspension of disbelief, and that's coming from someone who has no problem accepting gigantic humans from space. Even when I was a kid, the transitions between "generations" seemed jarring and incongruous. Not to mention a majority of fans do seem to rather dislike Southern Cross. That portion especially just doesn't match the feel of the other two shows. Mospeada was made as a tribute to Macross, so of course it fits in much better. I think we've all seen it, so I think you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you want an epic space opera, you're better off flexing those reading skills and picking up Isaac Asimov's Robot, Foundation, and Empire novel seris to get a real space epic. The attempts to stitch unrelated stories together also introduces some great plot holes. Max and Miria are perfectly happy to take their infant daughter into a hostile enemy ship and use her as a ploy in a dangerous gambit, only to then abandon her on a devastated, comparatively defenseless Earth for God knows how long because a diplomatic mission to make contact with the Robotech Masters is too dangerous? Uh...

    Oh yeah, one more thing I often hear from Robotech fans: that Robotech is more serious. I'm sorry, but giant humas from space that somehow never figured out what sex is, the extent of the impact of "culture shock", cold fusion from magic plants, and an alien phoenix-woman-thing married to a talking slug pretty much sink that. That's even more absurdity than the original Macross had. Moving on.

    Carl Macek is a horrible storyteller. He makes the same mistakes in all of his anime rewrites, and Robotech exemplifies all of them. For starters, he has no appreciation for poigniant silence or dramatic pauses. He fills them all with chatter. It doesn't have to be even remotely arguable "useful" chatter like his excessive exposition, someone just needs to be running thier mouth. I find that inelegant and obnoxious. That alone would be bad enough for me, but he makes it worse by dumbing things down. Oh, he says he refuses to talk down to his audience, and his fans will agree with it, but what he really means is that he chooses source material that doesn't talk down to the audience. Then he treats us like we have not only the attention span of a gnat, but the comprehension of a four-year-old as well. Sometimes it's a rather slow four-year-old. How? Well how about the ceaseless rambling exposition? A small portion of that near the end of one story and the beginning of another is neccessary to connect things, but the majority of it is just there to fill silence. He thinks the audience he's "not" talking down to can't even follow or understand the main plot without constantly explaining to us what just happened, what's happening now, and what's going to happen. Also pay attention to how many times the characters explain for the audience what they're doing, even though we can clearly see them doing it onscreen. People who did that all the time in real life would get smacked upside the head with alarming frequency, I think. I like the comparison someone made to the way that happens in Challenge of the Super Friends, because it's very much the same. It's obvious enough from his writing, but you can also see from some interviews with Carl Macek that he (re)writes his scripts with the assumption that the audience isn't paying attention, or is maybe in another room. If members of the audience don't care enough to pay attention and actually watch the show, maybe they're a lost cause? Of course it also boils down to the fact that the primary reason for all American anime edits is the fundamental belief that the audience can't handle the source material, be it violence, sex, culture, or especially in this case, any form of subtlety at all. Macek believed it, Saban believed it, Nelvana believed it, 4Kids preaches it to the world even now.

    Besides that, the dialogue and narration he writes are often just plain bad, and as awkward as it is pointless or unnecessary. The acting in Robotech isn't always great, but I'm impressed that they can even attempt to deliver some of those lines convincingly. You could try to chalk it up to preference, but anyone who really knows much about good storytelling could tell you he's a hack and a just plain bad writer. It should be as obvious and clear as the bad acting in the English language Macross dub.

    Other, smaller things hurt Robotech badly and are hard for most people to justify, even when it's also a matter of taste. Reba West cannot sing, for one thing. Mari Ijima's acting as Minmay wasn't stellar, but it was good enough, and at least it wasn't painful when she started to sing. That probably contributes to the other problem that Robtech makes people hate Minmay. Besides the bad singing, the Robotech scripts emphasized the immature, selfish, fickle part of her personality and minimizes any maturing she did in Macross, especially in the last episode. Macross Minmay earned her own fan following. Robotech Minmei generally earns hatred.

    Maybe it is ultimately preference. If you prefer poor continuity, plot holes, ceaseless chatter, excessive and repetitive exposition, awkward dialogue, dumbed-down scripts, bad singing, and an irritating version of Minmay, then you are clearly in the right to like Robotech better. Just don't get all pissy when someone questions your taste. I'll be taking my steak without the tread of someone's boot ground into it.
     
  18. Gryph

    Gryph Action Master

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    God! It's not that big of a deal!
     
  19. ginrai

    ginrai lost with no way home.

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    Do you allways get your hackles up as soon as some one mentions the dreaded Robotech or the great Satan Carl Macek?

    The two shows have virtually NOTHING in common. they share animation and a few story elements.. Nothing else. Just becuase YOU like Macross better, Dosen't mean he will. And considering you can get the Entirity of Robotech, all 85 episodes + special features + a 2 hour movie for less than it will cost to get the new ADV macross dvds at 19.99 a peice x 6. So he could spend allot of money, for less product for something that he may or may not like.
     
  20. Fairy Princess

    Fairy Princess Banned

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    Actually Reflex referred to the Protoculture's enabling of the humans to build machinery that responded to thought...


    And Flamey, I hear they have shots now to reduce the onset of rampant delusional fanboyism....
     
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