Where was it said that Beast Wars followed a mishmash of G1 cartoon/comics?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by johnboy3434, Jun 29, 2011.

  1. johnboy3434

    johnboy3434 Well-Known Member

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    I've seen it said on TFWiki and from a bunch of other people that Beast Wars and Beast Machines occur in a continuity where the events of G1 were a mishmash of events from both the cartoon and the comics. I took it as fact, but never actually saw the source. I was conversing with someone on another board when the subject came up. He said that he didn't buy it and wanted to see the quote.

    Not having the quote, I didn't have much to dissuade him. Whenever G1 events are referenced in BW/BM, they always seem to refer to the cartoon: Starscream is a free-floating "ghost" after being killed by Galvatron, the Nemesis crashes on Earth rather than remaining in orbit, the Ark is clearly designed after the cartoon's portrayal rather than the comics, etc. The only vestige of anything related to the Marvel comics is the name Primus, and there's nothing in the cartoon that says he doesn't exist, only that he didn't create the Transformers (which I don't remember being brought up in BW/BM). Also, Starscream's color scheme is based on the comics, but that's hardly conclusive evidence.

    That said, it's such a widespread notion that I figured somebody official had to have said it. I looked through a bunch of newsgroup posts by the BW story editors, but didn't find anything (in fact, one post by DiTillio explicitly said it took place after the cartoon, but that was when the series was in its infancy). So where did this notion come from?
     
  2. chazparks

    chazparks Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is based on either just as much as it is based on a broad concept of G1. Look where the Ark is versus where it is in Sunbrow's G1. The whole Ark is in the Canyon in BW. In G1, the back section is kept out. Look at where the G1 characters are laying in the Ark in G1 vs BW, they are in different locations.
     
  3. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    You actully refranced one of the other "comic" connections and didnt notice it.

    There it is.

    If you missed it its the ARK.

    The Autobot ship in the G1 toon was never named.
    But he was spoken of as if he was a God like person.

    We know the G1 toon left little room for such a character.
    I believe that the only "official" link, besides the above mentioned items, was one of the shows creators suggesting a link between the Vok, and the Swarm from the G2 book.

    But I could be wrong on if it was one of the cfrerators that suggested that.
    Edit:
    Larry DiTillio a writer and story editor for the Beast Wars series.It was his idea to link the Vok to the G2 comic Swarm.But it never made it to the show.
     
  4. Steevy Maximus

    Steevy Maximus Movie Megs eats your soul

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    That's how a I view it, the cartoon was clearly a major source considering it WAS the most visible version of G1 (I don't care if the comic was better, more people have a familiarity with the cartoon than the comic), but I believe comic elements were used (like the Ark name for example).

    Like any TF series, you start looking too hard, you will find errors and inconsistencies in ANY series (especially in a situation like Beast Wars where the G1 connection wasn't really planned until it happened)
     
  5. Transfotaku

    Transfotaku Transformer Otaku

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    Both the BW writers had posted on alt.toys.transformers way back when time to time.

    They both would give some answers and info here or there, and Larry pretty much said long ago on a.t.t that he envisioned BW as being after the G2 comics with much of the cartoon thrown in also.

    Take that as you will. Is author intent important to you? Then that's your answer. If you're the kind of person who only takes it if it happened on screen, then it doesn't matter what Larry wanted in his writing.
     
  6. johnboy3434

    johnboy3434 Well-Known Member

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    It's not that I don't trust you guys, it's just that I would like to have a link to the actual statement on hand in case the discussion ever comes up. Could someone locate the post linking the Vok to the Swarm? I went through DiTillio's newgroup posts, but I must have missed that one.
     
  7. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    The only think I can link you at this time is the wiki entry on the subject.But it doesnt stated where it got its info from

    http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Vok#Origin_controversy

    Theres also a Takara Japanese magazine called Beast Wars Universe.It is a Japanese BW's guidebook.It features a wealth of information about the Beast Wars animated series, toyline, and production process.

    Character profiles, Episode guides and Information from writers and producers.Some of the stuff has been translated.
    http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb/tf/tidbits/vok.txt
    Beast Wars Universe - Transformers Wiki
    Beast Wars Universe - Teletraan I: the Transformers Wiki - War for Cybertron, Transformers 3, Dark of the Moon, Transformers Prime, Toys
     
  8. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    I suppose you could perhaps count a talking Ravage and his close devotion/loyalty to Megatron as something from the comics. Although more likely it's just how it happened in Beast Wars rather than any particular nod to Marvel TF.
    Yeah, I'm probably just barrel-scraping with this suggestion. :p 
     
  9. Verno

    Verno Beast Wars Collector

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    On the Madman BoxSet DVD Editions of Beast Wars (Yeah, Australian Editions! Region 4), there are some question and answer bonus features with Bob and Larry. If you could find a transcript of them, they might reveal some light on the subject.
     
  10. Transfotaku

    Transfotaku Transformer Otaku

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    Indeed. I seem to recall some Botcon Q+As with Bob and Larry pointing out to a mixed universe for G1-BW.

    Not like it effectively mattered in the BW toon, since they only really took the universal bits of all the various G1s everyone uses (war between the factions, Bots eventually winning, Arks, sleeping for millenia) to use in BW. For all it matters, BW could in theory be a sequel to the DW G1 and IDW G1 comics as well.

    Either way, Larry wanted the Vok to be the Swarm from the G2 comics, post Matrix cleansing and evolved. That's a strong comic tie there. And the cartoon tie is pretty obvious.
     
  11. XanatosVanBadas

    XanatosVanBadas Active Member

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    ^ The thing with the Vok origin is, didn't both Larry and Bob disagree on their origins? I think Bob Forward had invisioned them as ultimate step in evolution for every lifeform or something similar. My point is, since the two main writers couldn't agree on what they wanted the Vok to be and since neither version made it into show canon, I don't see why Larry's version should be taken as the absolute gospel.

    Also, keep in mind the comic references (like the cartoon ones earlier) were accidental. the name Primus was thrown in as an injoke for the newsgroup fans since the writers heard the name here and there in fan posts. They didn't know it had REAL significance in G1 lore. It was only after the buzz got started for them tossing in a Primus reference that they did further research.
     
  12. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    yes they disagreed.

    And the comic links werent all accidental.Naming the Autobot ship was deliberate.
     
  13. XanatosVanBadas

    XanatosVanBadas Active Member

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    Which happened after the references to Primus came about. That's my point.
     
  14. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    I dont see how that effects what I said.
     
  15. johnboy3434

    johnboy3434 Well-Known Member

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    They used the term Primus. The fandom squeed because it was an unwitting reference to the comic. They realized this produced good results, so they called the ship the Ark in an intentional nod to the comics.

    But this isn't really the hard evidence I thought there was. Again, there's nothing in the G1 cartoon that precludes the existence of Primus (Hell, the recent retcons by Hasbro tell us that Primus exists in every continuity) and there's also nothing that says the ship wasn't called the Ark.
     
  16. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Again, it doesnt change anytrhing I said.

    But as for the Primus refrance being "unwitting"...well thats not entirely true.

    They may not have completely understood the significance fans would make of the name being used, but they certainly knew it was a G1 name/character from the comics.

    So, the Primus link was not accidental.

    And while it may be possible to "squeeze" Primus into the G1 toon history, FACT remains he was never mentioned.

    They and fans may like the idea of "retro actively" adding him in, but that doesnt change the fact that the character is never mention or seen in the G1 toon.And that he was a "comic" only character durring the run of G1.

    Same goes for the name of the ship.4 seasons of G1 toon and the ship was never named.Sure, it can be "retro actively" be given a name, any nsame.But thast doesnt change the fact the ship's name is never mention or seen in the G1 toon.And that the name ARK has a "comic" origin

    That is INDEED really hard evidence of the BW, writers useing the comics as a bases for their back ground.
     
  17. Verno

    Verno Beast Wars Collector

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    Ok, here's a doozy for you all:

    - From the TF Wiki.

    So thats G2 comics thrown in too, yes?
     
  18. Transfotaku

    Transfotaku Transformer Otaku

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    The thing with the Vok is, even though they disagreed, they didn't contradict one another. If Bob's version was correct, the Vok would STILL be the Swarm, because they would be the 'final evolution of everything' and the Swarm is something that exists.

    The main difference between the two is that Larry wanted the Vok to be JUST the Swarm. Bob wanted the Vok to be the Swarm + Lizards + Humans + Every other living thing put together.


    Most assuredly. Both Bob and Larry were very aware of the G2 comics, the Swarm, and how the issues played out.
     
  19. XanatosVanBadas

    XanatosVanBadas Active Member

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    Another thing is that, while the ship was named The Ark, the ship's computer system was called Telatraan1. NOT Aunty or whatever it was called in the comics.
     
  20. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    It was only called Auntie in the UK comics.
     

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