Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Wubglitch, Jan 24, 2018.
Right from the start.
All film franchises have to change at some point or they burn out. There is also only so far you can go with just a decent sized but very loyal fan base. Before New Trek Paramount thought they could keep going with Star Trek films just by getting Trekkies back to the theater. Sadly there just aren't enough Trekkies out there to support a movie franchise once Joe Public was bored and moved on to other movies. Firefly fans might have been a highly passionate bunch but a movie just for the brown coats was a disaster.
I just don't know that Transformers the Last Knight would have been a huge success if they had said damn the torpedoes lets keep the Bay fan base happy. The movies had been slipping at the domestic box office each film since Revenge of the Fallen so it kind of seemed like just a matter of time before the international numbers would slip as well. Everything just falls at some point as what people want out of movies is always changing and evolving into something else.
But I don't think Paramount's not a reboot but kind of sort of a reboot ideas are really helping matters any. Like you said it seems they didn't make their Bayverse fans happy. At the same time they really didn't offer up the sort of things that would make people either return to the franchise or make someone jump onto the franchise for the very first time. Kind of the worst of all worlds.
Even with the domestic slide though, I think the first four films were not worst case scenarios, but best case scenarios.
And I don't think "soft reboots" (a term I hate) are the problem, otherwise the fourth film would not have made 1.1 billion. Rather, I think it's the timing of the "soft reboot." The fourth film was a "soft reboot" at the right time. The stories of Sam and company were done. Most all of the Decepticons were dead. Cybertron was heavily destroyed or damaged (the latest film makes it the latter). It was the right time to try out new Autobots to join Prime and Bee, new humans, new villians, and new directions.
One problem with The Last Knight is that it sort of wanted to be a "soft reboot" immediately after a "soft reboot." Want Creators? We're not even going to further explore Transformer origins at all. Like Galvatron? Let's have Megatron back with no explanation, and let's not even mention Galvatron. Want to know how Prime is one of the Knights? The Knights in this movie aren't consistent at all with what the previous film established? Plus, let's make Unicron the Earth, a secret society even more secret than Sector 7, and Transformers suddenly come in waves for no reason.
If you make a "soft reboot," don't "apologize" for it by making another "soft reboot" immediately after. Stick to your guns. Especially since I enjoyed the fourth film more than any of the others with its novel cast of robots and humans, science fiction and alien feeling, and new story directions.
TLK's China opening was the biggest opening for a Transformers movie there yet, but the reactions to it were very indifferent or negative, so it declined extremely quickly and made much less than the previous film. That's not "franchise fatigue," that's a reaction to this particular film.
True, absolutely. AOE didn't anything wrong. The reaction of audience was very good, even critics said more positive things and add even more positive about AOE after TLK. No one except Hasbro wanted another reboot (they didn't perform AOE toy line good and was not happy about new designs and Megatron's absence). Moreover AOE was the FIRST not-standalone film in the series without classic epilogue. Instead it has a cliffhanger! It brought so much new and mysterious things, so many people were SUPER excited to see the sequel. And all this news about cinematic universe said about big plans and people (at least international audience) were really enthusiastic. But instead we got another soft reboot right in the moment, when the Movie already got new direction and fresh breath and people appreciated it. And - the worst thing - filmmakers didn't aware us! Even the title was consistent with AOE!
First off, let me preface this by saying that I love all five transformers movies for various reasons. They all have aspects that are great. That said, obviously tlk severely underperformed (fun fact: it did far better in China than star wars).
My theories regarding what happened with tlk:
1: Tlk was too much for one movie. They said it themselves, tlk was multiple storylines mixed together. In the end, it was fast-paced and whether or not that is good is a viewer's opinion. I thought the storylines were very interesting, but the speed was extremely high.
2: Tlk oversold certain points that were in the movie. The three that most stand out to me are optimus being evil, barricade vs. bumblebee, and a little of megatron. Optimus being evil was enough for one movie in and of itself; but in the movie, he was only evil for a few minutes, which obviously should not have happened. Also, just bringing back barricade was cool enough, they did not have to promote a battle with him and bee only to have it and so quickly. Megatron needed more obvious explanation.
3: Tlk lacked many iconic action sequences that the previous installments had. Rotf has the forest battle, aoe had dinobots charge, dotm had the highway chase scene, etc. But this movie never really had long battles that were as good. Maybe optimus vs. bee or infernocus, but that is it.
4. Tlk did not explain things well enough. For example, how, if, at all, Quintessa is truly related to the creators, where the Dinobots went in the second half, how bee reforms himself now, and megatron come to mind. They can certainly say Quintessa is the leader of the creators as a prime and that she made them, or something close to that. And i do think Megatron wasn't explained because it was similar to how soundwave didn't have his mercedes logo in dotm right away- it was a surprise that he was working for quintessa.
I definitely still love this movie of course. But these are criticisms to help the series get better over time, from my perspective. Over the course of five movies and ten years, the transformers movies made 4.5 billion dollars, which is great, but it's time to modernize.
My overall advice for next time would be to focus on a major market and appeal to it, probably china. Take one storyline and existing characters and expand upon them. I would imagine that would be Unicron. The action scenes should follow and just be sure to clearly explain things.
The long rambling post is over!
"What's wrong with it besides the very fucking core of the movie being flawed" is what you're asking us. I think you answered your own question.
Its a joke channel focusing on the negative of even actually genuinely good movies for a cheap laugh, but that doesn't mean everything said is untrue.
When a group of writers didn't change a thing.
1. Decepticons that were introduced died within minutes (With the expection of Nitro Zeus, however he too was short lived)
2. Squeeks and that teen girl were annoying as fuck and useless in general.
3. Movie felt too drawn out, it felt like 2+ plots all being squeezed together.
4. Bringing out yet another human antagonist group (I thought after the HK Battle, humanity would finally realize that the Autobots were no menace)
5. End battle was ludicrous. Human troops with M16's fighting alien robots with much greater firepower, really?
6. Many characters just randomly disappear. Like Trench, Wheelie, and Barricade.
7. Nemesis Prime existed for like 5 minutes and was only stopped when BB randomly regained his voice. Didn't really contribute much to the plot frankly.
8. Speaking of BB, how the hell did he learn how to fall apart like that?
9. Optimus shouts "I am Optimus prime" over and over again.
10. Also since when did Megatron negotiate with humans? the Megatron we knew would start blowing up stuff and kill humans to get what he wants.
Yea there is a point where you just really have to shake things up in some way to move forward. It got to looking like superheroes might run out of steam so Fox had to take a chance at shaking things up in the movie superhero world with a rated R Deadpool and by being bold enough to kill off Wolverine. Marvel/Disney had to shake things up by saying what if our Thor movie played more like comedy? As much as some fanboys cried no Warner Brothers came to the conclusion that their DC movie universe had to be more than just grim dark. Sony rebooted Spider Man with the help of a rival in the movie industry when it looked like The Amazing Spider Man series wasn't going to put up the big box office numbers.
The Fast and the Furious franchise found new life by saying hey what if we did a heist film with crazy over the top car action and had the Rock fight Vin Diesel.
Unless they are going to be satisfied with the box office glory days being a thing of the past Transformers needs to find that thing that is going to appeal to more than just the fans still hanging around. At some point Paramount needs to stop living in the past and adjust to the current market.
Equally fun facts: China lacks the level of connection to Star Wars everyone else has because it wasn’t released there in the 70’s AND Star Wars still did double The Last Knight’s business anyway.
Everything else you said, I’m very much in agreement with.
TLK when wrong as soon as the title credits began. It's better then AOE but all of these movies, other then the first movie, has been "ADD-HD like" story telling. You have two, even three, different subplots/movies mashed into one two hour movie and none of it feels genuine or cohesive to the tone or theme of that movie. They really need to edit down and have a clear, singular story rather then jumping all over the place and none of it being that interesting.
With Bumblebee pissing on someone. They've all been dumpster fires, but I love em cause they're transformers. For better or worst and all that ripped in half Jazz.
Yeah, star wars has a lot of weaknesses right now as well lol. That series does have warning signs that should be examined as well.
They tried to cram multiple movies into one. None of the characters (save Bee, Cogman, and 3 of the humans) got a significant chunk of screen time. I still like the film: the human focus was nowhere near as awful as ROTF and a new character (Cogman!) and some other assorted bits.
Really, it's just too long.
I honestly dont know where it went wrong I love the previous 4 watched them a lot in fact my DVD for DOTM is starting to stop working but the last knight I just don't like one reason I can think is that there isn't many memorable scenes and the thing that bothers me the most is the plot obvious plot holes and things that just don't make sense like why the dinobots are again with the autobots ,where did scorn and strafe go,why can the knights form dragonstorm when certain knights are killed ,how the autobots got from Hong Kong to Chicago ,where did the autobots find wheelie ,how did the dinobots get from Hong Kong and the other thing is the cgi let me explain it looks great but
The dinobots and the knightship (at least in the junkyard scene ) are a completely different size than they were in aoe
Pretty much this.
Aside from all that entertainment value can override flaws; unfortunately TLK wasn't even very entertaining.
It was just a bad film all the way around.
the bizarre quick opening-credit/logo was a bad omen....& then merlin got 'sozzled' & i immediately lowered my expectations...
they should have just made a damn sequel! & not a quasi-sequel/cu hybrid which failed on so many levels
its biggest flaw was what all the films did, inventing new mythology that contradicts past parts just to create plot. the others did this but doing so much of it at once and after so much has been established just made it feel lazy and not part of the larger series.
also, rather than AOE, where the bots and humans were characters together, this one focused solely on cade and not really on the transformers.
I had to pause for a few moments when they started talking about the Witwiccians.... No. No, stop. Just let that whole part of the movie mythos die. It was stupid and should be forgotten.
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