What we really need is Classics Combiners

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Alucard77, Mar 16, 2011.

  1. Shelfwarmercon

    Shelfwarmercon Well-Known Member

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    One thing about Power Core Combiners is that you can look at them as an experiment, to see if people will buy the concept and the toys. And Hasbro has to come up with something new all the time, because they're competing with other toy companies.

    Fans won't like all the experiments, but you can't expect them to stagnate with Classics style all the time.
     
  2. Dr. Prime

    Dr. Prime Dr. Prime

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    I love reading these threads :D 

    I think we would all love to see more combiners, lets face it, they are fun and look cool :cool:  I bet with time and patience we may get some eventually. The economy is tought right now. We can't even get enough parents/kids (aside of the collectors) to buy enough product so that we can get the next NEW items on the shelves (like the G1 legends or RTS voyagers). The PCCs were a compromise and we all know they weren't the greatest thing.

    It might be easier if some of us could be positive about what we got. For instance, just about EVERYONE, including myself, was upset about the Supreme ROTF Devy. While Has/Tak wants to please the fans, they have to "think outside the box" and try new things....experiment if you will. They can't put out a G1 combiner every year and hope to be successful. Lets say they put out a ROTF Devy that had individual robot modes that sucked? while I am sure that would make a lot of us a lot happier, there would also be another large group of complainers that would say, "WHY CAN"T WE GET COOLER INDIVIDUAL ROBOTS AFTER ALL THESE YEARS??"

    Has/Tak knows we want combiners. I think at least 50 people ask them , if not more, at every botcon. If the economy was better, and parents could more easily purchase a $20 or so toy instead of worrying about their mortgage or bills, we will probably get some really cool updated combiners:2c: 
     
  3. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Yea I see the problems people have finding a figure like Blurr or some of the characters in the Revel the Shield line up and it just seems like it would be a nightmare to get the full team with the really bad distribution system that is in place right now.

    If the team wasn't in the same wave then you could end up with a problem where a retailer over orders one wave and then doesn't order the later wave. As long at it take figures to reach some markets the figures are sold out online before collector know of a shortage.

    Or even worse imagine what the scalpers would be like if a member of the combiner team ever got on one of those hot toy lists.

    I have to agree that it would take a new business model to make it work.
     
  4. The_Black_Sheep

    The_Black_Sheep Willyna...

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    Let's wait & see if there is a Classics 4.0 before we start dictating what characters should & shouldn't be in it... :lol  Honestly, I would buy any Classics Gestalt team - that's how much I luv my Classics line :) . But if they were to give us repainted Energon or PCCs combiners & brand them as "Classics"... Well, that's just lazy & not worth my money or time. Do Classics Gestalt teams right or don't bother with them at all.
     
  5. jestermon

    jestermon Well-Known Member

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    Man these are always the best threads.

    Certainly I would love them as well, but they won't happen the way we want in the new comic in the BFS there is a Devastator now I know everyone wanst a large combiner with transformable limbs.

    But, as long as it looks like a combiner in robot mode I thinkit would be fine if it was one transforming bot.

    Say if we got a Devastator that looked liked him in his bot mode but turned into say a large construction vehicle, what woudl be wrong with that?

    And if they made classics transformable combiners and used the PCC ports that would be fantastic.
     
  6. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    At least there was still a chance at it. Nowadays, it's far less likely.

    Don't make me laugh. That business model works for us. But parents and kids? Lesson in abject failure right there.
     
  7. Nightwind

    Nightwind Aka Dusty Bottoms.

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    I wouldn't mind a new set of combiners, but I'm actually very happy with the RiD build teams and Energon combiners so I could easily wait a little longer.

    On a side note, The Black Sheep's avatar makes me feel special in my pajama bottoms!
     
  8. Hiro Prime

    Hiro Prime Cybertronian Guru Veteran

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    You say a lot and believe it or not, some of us do listen and understand your points. In fact, you do make a number of good ones. Yes Combiners are tricky and they have tried many different ways to make them work. None of which seem to have.

    So the question then becomes why did they fail? I think part of the problem that nobody here is mentioning, is that many of the fans have wanted something like the Non-Constructicons for a very long time and are just never happy with all of the attempts by Hasbro to make them. If you can't get your core fanbase excited, how well will the kids really like them? Now I'm not saying that Fans are more important than the kids, just that we do account for a percentage of sales too. We may not be as large a group as the kids, but I think for the most part, we do have deeper pockets. (too many examples to back that one up so please don't argue this one point.) I think the fact that Classics keeps coming back year after year proves that the fans do contribute to the total bottom line for Hasbro.

    That said, how does Hasbro make these figures that would meet the desire of fans, the fun and playability of the kids and be profitable? Well I'm not going to say I have the answer, I don't think anyone does as it is a real challenge. But, if Hasbro did decide to make a deluxe combiner team with a Voyager body as so many fans would love to see, one could look to other toylines to see if they may hold a possible answer.

    As you mentioned with Power Rangers, the focus is different for each line. But if we were to look to the new He-man toys, we'd see just how Matel deals with collectors. Personally, I prefer the cheaper way that Hasbro sells the Classics, but a direct market approach could offer a single sorce that was available to most of us to push a series of Combiners at a slow and manageable pace. I would like to imagine at a quicker pace than the TFClub Combiner but with in a year or two so as to offer fans a reasonable amount of time to purchase the whole set. Of course they would cost 2 to 3 times the retail cost for a comparable figure so it's not a perfect solution, but it is one option.

    Another I could think of would be the Marvel Legends rout. Much like the current Reveal the Shield line, Hasbro could launch a subset for a Classic style line that focused on two sets of Combiners. (say the Stunticons and Protectobots) Wave 1 would have two different bots from each team with 2 of each per case. Wave two would have the other two sets. A single wave of Voyagers could be sold with the 2 bosses (x2) per case. That would make it even sets all around if the retailers ordered equally for the deluxes and voyagers. Each Deluxe would come with a connector part/weapon that would allow the deluxe figure to combine with the voyager figure. (Scramble City style if possible) The play value for the kids would be the figures being comparable to current Classic style figures but with the added ability to combine to make a bigger robot. (I don't think it'd be any more intrusive or distracting than any other gimmick like Mech Tech, PCC, Mini-cons, Mech Alive, etc...) Fans would snap them up initially. The main problems with this idea tho is the distribution, (as I said earlier, the Internet helps there) and the kids would need to get on board to help make it work.

    So there's two ideas. Who else would like to add another one. (without any sarcasm please as I'm trying to see if a way can be found to make this work rather than just argue about it.)
     
  9. Hiro Prime

    Hiro Prime Cybertronian Guru Veteran

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    More people are buying toys (and other goods) online these days than ever before. How else do you think that BBTS or Tempting Toys or TFsource can stay in business? Hell, do you know how many figures I've picked up from fans on this site that never appeared in my area? Dozens. And thanks to my fellow fans I was able to find them and add them to my collection.

    And parents do buy online. Trust me on this one. I own a retail store and I have to compete with all of the many online shops that constantly undercut me for my customer's dollars.
     
  10. Shelfwarmercon

    Shelfwarmercon Well-Known Member

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    But they're worth other fans' money and time. It's not like no TFW member has ever bought Classics toys that were redecos of Energon/Cybertron molds.

    Another thing to consider is it's all cost-related on the side of Hasbro/Takara. Arguing that the redeco is "lazy" is itself a lazy argument; they're going to find ways of making the most out of their molds, one way or the other. You may not be impressed by it, but it's a business model that works. Look at how many times they've reused the Masterpiece Optimus mold.

    Have you explored the feasibility of selling your products online, too?
     
  11. Fishdirt

    Fishdirt Tin Toy Transformer

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    G1 had no problem with it. The failure of the energon line (if you can call it a failure) was with poor design choices. ROTF bruticus, superion and dev all sold quite well.
     
  12. Anguirus

    Anguirus Well-Known Member

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    Being frugal is one thing. Tracking down and paying eBay prices for the last combiner limb you need so little Billy will get off your case is a different thing. ;) 
     
  13. lars573

    lars573 Well-Known Member

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    G1 was also sold much differently. In the 80's there was no such thing as waves or TF size classes. It was done by sku assorments. A store ordered a case of Autobot combiners leaders assortment they got a Silverbolt and a Hotspot. They ordered a case of autobot combiner limbs they got each of the limbs. Same for the decepticon combiners. And as long as the store ordered said cases that it what they got. And it did eventually get to be a problem it's why Hasbro created size classes and waves.
     
  14. PredakingRules

    PredakingRules Member

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    yeah we want classics styled combiners but we also want proper size scale.

    Having each scramble city team member be deluxe sized is not what the majority wants. the team leader should only be deluxe size. while the limbs are basic sized.

    I agree with the majority,higher priced gift sets around $65 wont sell in stores. stores would refuse to order & stock such a exspensive item. the only way were gonna see combiners in stores for decent prices is sold individually.

    the only G-1 combiners that deserve to be all deluxe size is the five 1986 Predacons.

    the 1985 Constructicons were tiny toys. they were a bit bigger than legends & a bit smaller than basics. so any new molds should be six basics to form devestator.
     
  15. xanthax

    xanthax choppaface

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    I use the Walmart repaint of the RiD constructicons as my classics devastator. He makes me a little sad though.

    I want so many others on my classics shelf.
     
  16. Philip164

    Philip164 Board Member

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    If they split up combiner throughout waves, they will create a problem for kids who buy later waves that require previous wave parts, resulting in two fans unable to complete parts. also it may detour people from buying parts if they can't but the previous wave. If the stores buy too many of the early waves they will not buy the later waves, and coupled with a possible shelf warming of extra part it with stall or cancel any chance of a complete Combiner.

    The only way to release a Combiner all at once in a single box, they would need to be developed together as one and sold as one.
     
  17. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    To your first point. It is funny how the whole "we are only 10% of sales" figure disappeared all of the sudden. You can not expect the fandom to but out retail distribution. The children are the ones the do the majority of retail buying. So you calling the fandom cheap is still null.

    Look at how successful 3rd party groups are doing. Crazy Devi sells out and they sell a piece of plastic for $30 bucks...literally a piece of plastic in the shape of a sword. We are not a cheap group. Sure there are those who wait for a deal but that is to be expected. The money we spend on toys comes from our luxury spending cash and in these times that amount is on a constant decline. But we are in no way cheap.

    And as for your second point... I am glad you and several others enjoy PCC but several people in a cumminuty this large would constitute a major MINORITY of fans. But I do say bless you for enjoying PCC. I am not out there to hate any TF and get dissapointed when I do. I am glad this is one series you get to enjoy.
     
  18. Fishdirt

    Fishdirt Tin Toy Transformer

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    Well if sold separate then pack the box with combiners in an equal amount. Usually there is an odd figure in a box so they can shove a non combiner in there. If it's a matter of distribution that's not a hard fix at all.

    I have faith there will be another classic combiner. They did do Predaking and Piranhacon (granted under limited distribution) under the classics lines not to mention various leader class figures. I think a gift set and seperate would be a good route to go.
     
  19. Dex17113

    Dex17113 Well-Known Member

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    All of these points regarding distribution is why I mentioned the whole "Matty Collector" thing.

    I REALLY think that's what this line desperately needs - a fan-dedicated website that produces limited run toys at a premium price for collectors. This way, we COULD get the combiner teams we want without it killing the retail outlets or Hasbro getting stuck with a ton of the bastards because retail refuses to sell them.
     
  20. Shelfwarmercon

    Shelfwarmercon Well-Known Member

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    They do. Takara runs Toy Hobby, while Hasbro has its Toy Shop.

    Both Hasbro and Takara's online stores have offered exclusives over the years, notably the black-boxed Classics and the Henkei Seekers.