What the HELL is wrong with kids these days???

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SC0RP0N0K, Aug 15, 2009.

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  1. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    Re integrative shaming.

    Awful name, I know. Sessions between the victims and the convicted. Voluntary, of course. Talking can go a long way, provided all parties aren't just interested in killing. Oh and you can fuss and moan about that not helping anybody, but, well, it does. The major difficulty is in getting all parties to agree to doing it, as most people would rather run away from, and demonise, their fears, rather than face up to the fact that said fears are real people.
    Of course, one would argue that it is better to have a rapist who is now capable of functioning in society normally, than a rapist who can't.
     
  2. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    Wow.
    This is quite possibly THE worst idea I have ever heard. Take the victims of a violent and horrible crime, and ask them if they'd be willing to sit in a room face to face with the people who did it? Who the hell thought this up?
    Would YOU do it...? Would you EVER even want to see their faces again?
    On the one hand you have a pair of MASSIVELY traumatised people, who probably won't ever be able to look each other in the eye again. And on the other hand, you have the bunch of unrepentant bastards who did that to them.
    The type of creatures that do things like this don't feel shame. They don't feel guilt. If they hadn't been caught, they wouldn't even give it a second thought.
    And one would counter-argue that the kind of mind that would commit rape just to get an education isn't the kind of mind you'd want on the loose at all.
     
  3. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    You might be on to something there. Dead pigs can't say "no." You'd also never get caught, because the roast pig couldn't squeal on you.




    ...even if you stick it in its pooper.
     
  4. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    "...Because they would rather run away from, and demonise their fears, rather than face up to the fact that said fears are real people."
    And others would argue that education, or lack thereof, is one of the major factors in determining whether someone commits crime or not.
     
  5. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    I suppose that depends on whether you would consider the kind of creatures that would gang rape someone and then force their own son to have sex with them as "people". It also depends on whether the creatures in question are even slightly repentant about their crimes. Sorry they got caught? Undoubtedly. Sorry they did it? I highly doubt that.
    And honestly; could you blame them for not wanting to ever see these creatures again?
    I'll ask you again. Would YOU do it? Would you EVER want to see those faces again? And if you did, do you honestly think that you would be able to control yourself when you did? Which would win; outright terror, or blind hatred and rage? I fail to see how anything good could ever come of such a scenario.
    And yet not all illiterate people are rapists.
    Immigrant comes from another country, barely speaks the language, and his first thought is to rape someone because that way he'll get a free education? I honestly don't see how anyone can justify something like that in ANY way, and keep a straight face. You can argue the virtues of education all you want, but a mind with impulses like that should NOT be free to wander around in ANY sort of society.
     
  6. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    I understand why someone would not want to participate, which is the weakness of the process. Also its strength. Nobody is forced into this situation.

    And yes. They are still people.

    I don't know where I'll be in ten years time. I don't know who I'll be. I do know that right now, all of us here are capable of committing the most disgusting atrocities. The most horrific acts. Some of us would feel remorse, others wouldn't. Others might not feel anything anymore. But we could all do it. We all have the potential to be criminals.

    In committing a crime, do you relinquish your humanity? Of course not! It's a stupid decision, like any other. Just far, far more costly.

    I'd like to think, from where I sit now, with that as a possibility in the future, that people would still consider me a person.
    Eh. If I didn't want to do it, I wouldn't have to. If I did want to do it, then I would attempt to make it productive.
    Why did he get those impulses? Alienation? Segregation? Brought about by a lack of understanding of societal norms and practices?
     
  7. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    I would frankly be amazed if many people would participate. Ideas like this sound wonderful on paper, but in practice they are little short of useless and badly thought out. It relies on the criminals feeling remorse, for a start.
    Not in my opinion. They ruined two lives. They violated the bonds of family in just possibly the sickest way imaginable. They are lower than pond scum as far as I am concerned. There is only so much that can, or should, be excused.
    And yet most of us never even consider acting on such impulses.
    Those who do should forfeit the right to be a part of society, for society's own sake. People should be protected from creatures like these.
    Do something like this, and I can pretty much guarantee that practically no-one would. And they'd be right not to.
    In other words, you don't know. I'd be willing to bet that if this had happened to you, the LAST thing you would ever want to do is face the slime that did it to you. And if you DID do it, I'd put good money on the first thing running through your mind being thoughts of how you could kill them.
    .....He raped someone so he could learn English. There is NO possible way on Earth to defend or justify that.
     
  8. newguy

    newguy i

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    Holy fucking shit. Wow. They made him fuck his mom? Dinner time must be really strange now. I hope those kids get ass raped every day by 2 guys... at the same time in jail. Screw it. I hope they get ass raped by 3 guys at the same time. Screw it!!! I hope the mom and son get to film this, and then put it all over the internet. Then they get to beat the shit out of them with chains. Then they get to break a glass bottle over their heads... both heads... and then shove it up their ass. After 25 years of this they are then killed by getting their eyes ripped out, and then putting flesh eating maggots in the sockets.
     
  9. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    Well, it happens, people participate and positive feedback is reported.
    A pilot in WW2 bombs a civilian target. He destroys a home, a family is annihilated. Well, not right away, the son, as he lies crippled on the ground sees his mother die, before dying himself.

    That pilot is a monster then, surely? Hell, he even had the gall to say what he was doing was right!

    Oh wait, that's alright, because he was operating under a series of arbitrary concepts and rules that justify his actions.
    a) People are protected from people like this.
    b) Yes, we can all say "We couldn't...", "I'd never...". I can say "I'm not going to hand in work late!". That doesn't mean it's not going to happen.
    They'd be 'right' not to... I thought you were a strong supporter of the subjective opinion angle. Well, clearly 'were' is the operative word here!

    So, to defeat your argument... They'd be wrong to!
    I'd put money on the first thing I'd do is embrace the opportunity!

    I say, this opinions and hypothetical thing is fun, isn't it?
    Yes there is so.

    Maybe... he was getting beaten up by people that thought it wasn't 'right' that somebody who couldn't speak English were living in their country. Maybe that pushed him over the brink?

    Oh... you mean defend or justify them to you. Well, maybe not. But then, you're not in charge of your court system, are you?
     
  10. kidnicky

    kidnicky Well-Known Member

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    10 years from now,you'll no longer be a highschool kid who thinks it's cute to stick up for rapists' rights just so you can be "shocking." I'm as liberal as the next guy,but rehabilitation for any rapist,let alone someone who makes little kids have sex with their parents,is a joke. The victims will never have anything close to a normal life,they would be better off had they been murdered.

    I won't go the route people tend to in these threads and be like,"I'd like to gut him and let spiders eat him and blah blah..." but from an objective point of view,the absolute best thing for the majority of society is to have these people removed from it. Jail is usually only temporary,and always costs law abiding citizens money,so execution is really the only option,as it is with all criminals convicted of violent crimes.


    BTW,isn't this thread title a little wierd? I mean,I really don't think this type of behaviour is typical of today's youth. I agree with Kickback's assertation that the current generation coming up all feel entiled to something for nothing (because of celebs-for-no-reason like the Kardashians),but that's really got nothing to do with these morally depraved individuals.
     
  11. kidnicky

    kidnicky Well-Known Member

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    I wish this board (and the entire internet) was 18+.
     
  12. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    Funny, because I'm not that person now.

    You being older, you're surely better able to empathise with rapists, yes?
    No, it's the easy option.

    And of course people are paying money for jails! Taxes are paid, and in return, the government takes care of you. Theoretically.
    If you want to elaborate, please, be my guest.

    Are you insinuating that upon reaching the age of 18, I'm going to suddenly experience a revelation that will completely alter my life perspective?

    Because some might call that an arbitrary rule.

    Incidentally, we might want to get this thread back on topic. Y'know, about the criminals, and how they should be treated.
     
  13. kidnicky

    kidnicky Well-Known Member

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    And ignore.
     
  14. Beastbot X

    Beastbot X Old skool. In a lot of ways.

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    A bit off-topic, but I wish this board would tell people when they pass certain ignore "milestones", like a PM telling you "Hey, you're now on the ignore list of 10/25/50/100 people!" (Without telling someone who they are, of course.) That would be awesome.

    But yeah, when it gets to the point where you can't respond to someone's post without breaking board rules, that's when ol' Ignorey comes in handy.
     
  15. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    Or self control?
     
  16. Harbinger

    Harbinger ecnayonnA

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    in any case, i sometimes wish they would have a shame/humiliation component to crimes other then just jail. a rapist my have second thoughts if when they are caught, and proven to have done it, they are highly likely to be stuck in stocks naked for the next week in their own home town.

    of course, you probably wont wanna be wrongfully arrested or something if that was the case.
     
  17. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    Well, that's one of the things about re-integrative shaming.

    It can put the criminal in a position to witness on a personal level the damage they have done.
     
  18. Maximum Burn

    Maximum Burn JETS AND HELI!! I LIKEY!

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    Breaking laws certain have certain punishments. I don't know what the punishment for these type of crimes are but pretty certain it's not the electric chair, as you were suggesting. If we all went random punishments based on how we feel, then where's the order in that system? How can you stop from going overboard?


    Yeah, but these people may have basic comforts but that's it. They done terrible things and that's there choice, and now the only choice they have is the prison life. People tell you when to eat, what to do, and etc. No freedom so I don't think it's so easy. It may be true that it's hard on the visitors but the burden or shame shouldn't be one them as they haven't commit the crime but it transfers. Sad but what they can do is go back to their comfort of a home and life with friends and family to help them get through it all. Prison guy only gets couple of mins, if he's good.

    I rather not quickly explore the option of killing them off. There's other ways. Why not use them for free labor? They have punishment to do and society is benefiting. Use them to help rebuild roads or some crap like that and save money to be used else where. I mean, there could be abuse of the system but there's room for abuse in all systems. Sure, work that the convicts take might leave people out of a job but they can adjust. They aren't not entirely helpless.

    Numbers are facts; they are just gathered data. Can't lie about that and pretty strong materials to back you up. You can use them to prove a point but people can use their own minds to draw their own analysis. People can question them, go over them, discuss them. If they are not statisfied with it then they can The arguement that numbers can be deceiving is ridiculous.

    There's other ways but it's an option. Might be better to let time do it's work. *shrugs*

    I do believe that is true. People tend to think of the system as a joke. But displaying the punishment? I think that's going to attract more people for the entertainment/shock then the value of deferment by doing so.

    Private help groups? People are often shamed for what they been victimized of so they could help him. Let him know he's not alone.

    As for making it up, what's done is done. Can't look back and expect them to change time. So comes the punishment, a fitting one that doesn't make us like them or worse.

    Couldn't that be done with life in prison with no parole and in isolation? Killing them seems like we're taking the easy way out.

    I am going to play devil's advocate.

    What he did was so wrong but was...smart. What else to do? Immigrants coming in come with nothing. Most of my relatives and people they know worked together and help each other out (well, most did). So we had the support. And others that weren't part of the community help out too. My mama thanks government for the food stamps we got.

    He could have done a lesser crime but I think he wanted to stay in for long. He gotten free education, housing, food when if he stayed out everything would have been harsh. The time he spent if he did it legit would have been hard. It would have been the same thing but riskier. He just did the cut out the harsh part and went with the sure thing.

    I am in no way condoning his actions or justifying it. Just analyzing it for the hell of it.

    Also, Spoon's option was an option. Trying to help the victims by exploring all the options. If there are none, make or find them. Could work. Never know for sure.
     
  19. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    I'm electing to ignore most of what you wrote, Spoon, because the message isn't sinking in. As much as I admire your optimism, I can see you having this conversation again in a few years, when you've finally realised what a bunch of bastards most of humanity can be.
    However, I CAN'T let these 2 gems pass by without comment:
    ...PLEASE tell me you didn't just compare a serviceman doing his duty with a bunch of c*nts who raped a woman and then forced her own son to fuck her.
    Good work. You just equated someone serving his country with a bunch of rapists.
    He'd JUST gotten off the boat. He'd just arrived. he hadn't even tried. He hadn't had a chance to get ridiculed. And even if he had, there are methods in place to TEACH people English. Going out and raping someone JUST to learn the local lingo is barbaric and evil. Rape in general is barbaric and evil. You're wasting your time even trying to defend this scumbag, or the others.
    ...I'm going to forget I ever even read that.
     
  20. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    Oh please. I'm well aware of the total bastadry of humanity.

    :rolleyes: 

    You know what? I think I did. And your outrage confirms your fallacy.

    You think an action is correct when it conforms to what you believe is 'right', and yet the same action is incorrect when it doesn't conform to your own opinion. After all, you wouldn't support a terrorist blowing up a home full of innocent people, would you?
    Well you're the expert.

    I need a link to a news article or something to get the full info, though.
     
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