What should the reboot designs look like?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by electronic456, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. Furnace

    Furnace The original Starscream

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    You've got some really intriguing ideas there! I'm particularly privy to the idea of the ancients being better than how we are now, and your idea would be an excellent way to represent that. It really shows how far the Cybertronian race has fallen, and how hard it would be for them to go back to living lives of peace. There's even some precedent in other TF media, with say, the Thirteen Primes looking vastly different (and vastly more stylistic) than the modern Autobots and Decepticons. All in all, I wouldn't mind seeing something like this implemented!
     
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  2. AMG

    AMG Old School

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    I'd love to see it look like WfC/FoC.

    GdZwIRSvDVOszcr-800x450-noPad.jpg

    transformer-war.jpg
     
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  3. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    I love those designs but video game level graphics really wouldn't look good for a live action film. I would like to see more of Cybertron instead of like the Bay films did where we really haven't seen anything after five movies. I mean there are little bits of it here and there but we've really only seen it from orbit and as a dead planet. There's no sense of what Cybertron was like as a populated world, nothing from the surface level where you can actually get a sense for what daily life is like for it's people.

    To be fair a lot of cartoons have done this where we barely see anything of Cybertron or some times we don't see it at all but I would really love for a live action film to make an attempt to do something the cartoons never did, to actually show life on Cybertron.

    Honestly I think Animated has done the best job of making Cybertron feel like a real place... which is odd considering the art style is the least realistic... Well not including stories that are set entirely on Cybertron to begin with. It's easy to establish Cybertron as a real place when that's actually your main setting but when the majority of the story happens on Earth most of the time Cybertron is under developed or worse a place we hear about but never see.

    I would freaking love it if they actually modeled Cybertronian and Earth modes for every character... and no cheating by using the Earth model on Cybertron or making every Cybertronian design look exactly the same. Megatron, Soundwave, and Shockwave each had unique designs but most other characters just reused the same protoform/Astroid model that Optimus had.
     
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  4. spikebuster

    spikebuster Well-Known Member

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  5. Kyekjeliesh Jum

    Kyekjeliesh Jum Banned

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    I understand that some people have viewed Bayformers first and then the originals, but saying that Transformers designs should stay as far away from the originals as possible is like saying you only like Spider-man 2099 or Miles Morales and the character should stay as far away from his original design and concept as possible. "Oh dammit... Spider-man looks like Spider-man again in the new movies... I'm out".
     
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  6. Cosbydaf

    Cosbydaf Well-Known Member

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    Why?
     
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  7. rodimuspm

    rodimuspm Well-Known Member

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    As far a the reboot goes, i would love it, if hasbro decided to use one of these design for rodimus.
     

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  8. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    Not gonna lie that's an interesting idea. In a way it harkens back to the Beast Machines idea of cybertronians originally having some organic lifeform going on before it became mechanical.

    I'm sorry but I can't see how the Alternators design is more realistic then the movie designs we have right now and here are the reasons for it.

    1. They don't look like they're from another world. They look way too toy like and not in a good idea and they come across as coming out of a human assembly line. You don't really get a sense that they're otherworldy beings. Despite the bashing the movie designs got you can clearly tell they're from another world.

    2. They would look way too toy like and clunky to transform. Trying to not cheat as possible will only take you so far so trying too hard to do it will only make them look comical and awkward looking. Why do you think most of the BW designs got changed the way they did in season 1 from the original toys? Again despite some faults the movie designs do feel like that it would be possible for them to transform in real life because realistic we don't know the extend of how alien tech works.

    Honestly I think going the way that IDw and most of the TF games like Universe and the new Chiense game would be the best route because despite be more classic like they still give a feeling that they're not from planet Earth and that they still transform in an otherworld fashion. Also it's best that they also take the BW and tFA route when it comes to designs where both the toy maker and model work together at the same time so it'll work well as both a toy and as a animation model.
     
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  9. spikebuster

    spikebuster Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say stay away completely.

    Because they need to look like they could be real. Not blocky.

    YES! The second one is good. G1 enough while not being too blocky while being semi real.
     
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  10. Cosbydaf

    Cosbydaf Well-Known Member

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    I don't see why this is a priority. Transformers was never trying about trying to make plausible aliens - they were based on toys that were originally piloted mecha. No series other than Bayformers tries to do this, and even then the concept was inconsistent and largely abandoned as it went along. To me it's like saying the Klingons from Star Trek are too humanoid and should look like this-
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Also why does "realistic alien robot" mean "thousands of parts, with vulnerable mechanisms exposed?"


    upload_2018-3-6_20-34-2.png

    Like for example, how is the leg on the left a more practical design than the leg on the right? Blackout's legs look fragile as hell.

    As for looking like they can transform, most of them really don't, once you go past TF1 that stopped being a priority too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
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  11. PaxStarkist

    PaxStarkist G1 and Bayformer Fan

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    I'm guessing he's supposed to be made of "sterner stuff"

    also could You imagine a Klingon actually looking like That?

    Maybe they give Him Tim Shinn Soundwave's legs
    His Upper Body wasn't that bad
     
  12. Cosbydaf

    Cosbydaf Well-Known Member

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    I feel similar about Ironhide. The upper body "Well okay, it looks like he can transform at least" but then the legs are these horribly awkward, fiddly things that look like they'd be completely destroyed by one grenade.
     
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  13. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    1. That's what Cybertronian vehicle modes are for. When they transform into Earth vehicles of course they look like they came off a human assembly line, that's the whole point of the disguise. As for the robot modes, the Autobots have always looked more human while the Decepticons have such drastically different designs that it's not even believable they originate from the same planet. This is sort of fixed in the sequels with the Decepticons looking more humanoid like the Autobots but the other problems I mention are still present. Oh and they actually have made the robots look more solid over time as well but they still don't look like they can actually transform. Oddly the transformations have gotten worse since they don't even have kibble vehicle kibble anymore.

    2. BW designs got changed because the point of them was to look like organic beasts and the toys had obvious robot kibble. If they made the animation toy accurate they wouldn't look like real animals and it would defeat the purpose of their organic designs.

    As for the other comment you made, the extend of how alien tech works does not in any way explain away transformations that clearly defy the laws of physics in order to function in the movie. The very basic law of physics I'm referring to here is that more parts equals more chance for something to fail. The movie designs literally have thousands of moving parts which means that realistically, any hard object thrown at a Transformer would be enough to kill them. They have so many moving parts that if even ONE THING gets stuck then the entire transformation would be halted. Those transformations shouldn't work because with that many parts moving all at once technically their own parts would conflict with each other. It's physically impossible for two or more solid objects to occupy the same space. The way their transformations work literally require parts to phase threw each other rather than what they would realistically do which is collide and halt the transformation.

    AoE Decepticons/KSI Transformers are even worse because they don't even look like they're trying to hide how impossible their transformations are. They just seem to literally break up into digital pixels and reassemble into a different form.

    Transformers are suppose to look clunky to transform because honestly that's the only way they look believable as transforming fighting machines.

    Also they wouldn't really look like toys... The toys are just a proof of concept that the design can actually function withing the laws of physics. It's a small scale model not the final design. Pretty much everything is designed in small scale first. Actual cars, houses, movie/theater sets (I actually have a set from Paid Tidings). The full scale version never ends up looking like a toy. The small scale version looks like a toy because it basically is. When you scale that up to full size then it actually looks real because it is... at least the vehicle modes would be. The robot modes of course would be CGI models but they'd still look real not like toys because again the toy is just a model, a proof of concept that the design actually functions without breaking the laws of physics. They're not going to animate things like plastic ball joints, the full scale version would have more mechanical looking joints so that it appears like a fictional robot not something assembled in a toy factory. They're not going to render the textures of a plastic model, they're going to texture it to look like the real car... which to be fair also contains plastic but they tend to be made of a different type that's a bit more sturdy than the toy versions.

    Also would like to point out that the Alternators toy line was made to be as realistic as possible. They have actual interiors, they include real car details as they were actually officially licensed. They even had accurate engines... or at least the top portion of the engine. If you made them full scale and accurate to the toy on the surface level a real car could easily hide a robot. However if a mechanic were to look under the car or try to reach below the surface of the engine he'd end up running into robot parts. The engines weren't blocks, but rather flat panels. They were like scaled down models, if you put one next to a model there's no indication that one of them transforms into a robot. That's exactly what a realistic transformer should be, if you place it next to the real thing you shouldn't be able to tell the difference between the real car and the robot disguised as a car. The Human Alliance figures are the closest equivalent to Alternators. They also try to be as close to the real car as possible giving them actual functioning interiors. The problem is with the movie designs despite being exactly the same size as an Alternator, with the complex transformations it's easy to tell you're looking at a Transformer. With the way Bumblebee's hood transforms that broken up front end makes it painfully obvious this isn't a model of a Camero but a transforming robot. I could put Alternators Tracks in vehicle mode next to a non-transforming model and you wouldn't be able to tell which car is Tracks. I can not put HA Bumblebee next to a Non transforming Camero because he's terrible at hiding the fact he's robot.

    I actually do own a Non-Transforming model of Movie Sideswipe's vehicle mode just cause I really like that car. I also have a few Sideswipes. The funny thing is with how smooth and sleek that design is even if he had a more traditional design I don't think there's any way of making that car work. What typically makes them work for me is using the panel lines that already exist on the actual vehicle. That particular car doesn't really give anything to work with so no matter he was going to end up with cracks anyway. However the more complicated the toy is to transform the more broken he ends up looking. HA oddly is the easiest version of him I have to transform and manages to be the most accurate to the real car. You can still tell it's a robot because there shouldn't be a giant crack going down the middle of his hood but it's amazing they manages to make that work without adding more cracks. It's not accurate to the movie though since Sideswipe doesn't have giant chunks of car hanging off his back. They have to go some where and the movie would prefer to have you believe they magically disappear which is in no way realistic.

    Now here's where I really get confused... you disagree with me but then conclude your post by coming to basically the exact same conclusion I did... If you disagree then why have we ended up coming to the same conclusion? It's possible that even though we arrived at the same conclusion that our reasons for going in this direction are completely different. I just don't understand the thought process that lead you to arrive at the same destination despite taking a different path to get here. I suppose it really doesn't matter what roads we traveled down as long as we arrived in the same place but you took the time to disagree with me so I should have a better understanding of your point of view. I'm just not entirely sure exactly what your argument is.
     
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  14. PaxStarkist

    PaxStarkist G1 and Bayformer Fan

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    I like the idea of looking under the hood or opening a door only to find "robot guts"
    Which is what I thought Mikela would see when she did her "iconic scene"
    one minute she's doing her sexy pose and the next she's all like

    "OMG THERE'S A GIANT ROBOT FACE STARING AT ME"
     
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  15. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    The point I was making that while the Alternators did try to make the transformations and alt modes more realistic as you can get it still had their shortcomings both design and transformation wise and wouldn't exactly be anymore realistic to see on film then the current movie designs. If anything it would actually make them far less realistic then the movie designs because you need to have specific details on both the designs and transformations in order to give out a convincing take transforming robotic life forms in rea life and the Alternators would NOT be the right choice to go with for that. For some people it would be going too far the other way around and would end up looking comical on screen. The reason why I brought up the IDW and Universe designs at the end was because they manage to strike a balance between between classic looking and otherworldy details far more then the Alternators did. john Nizzi's designs for the Age of Time statue line also gives a good example of how to do that concept right.

    As for KSI well the entire theme of them was that they don't transform the same way actual Cybertronians do so saying that they're terrible at actual transformation is exactly the point.
     
  16. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    You still have to keep them grounded and alien looking in some manner so that audiences who aren't are accepting of the brand's more fantastical elements won't be turned off from how the TFs look and transform. Even the MCU needed to keep certain elements grounded in order to work in real life in a reasonable fashion and like how Legendary's Godzilla had some details and elements on him that keeps him a little more grounded in realty. Having Cybertronians looking like Earth made mecha won't convince people that they're otherworldy bots. Nizzi's Age of Time statue designs honestly have the right idea of maintain that balance.
     
  17. Cosbydaf

    Cosbydaf Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of people have been turned off by the current movie aesthetic, even non-transformer fans have complained about it frequently since 2007. I've seen very little demand for them to be more "alien", But I've heard plenty of people disliking how many of them look like "bipedal robot bugs".

    I have no issue with AoT Optimus for a reboot, but Megatron looks like just another Bayformers iteration of the character. The head, especially.

    And really AoT Optimus looks about as man-made as the Iron Man suit or Gipsy Danger. Like the majority of TF's, he's never been a very "alien" looking character.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  18. Kyekjeliesh Jum

    Kyekjeliesh Jum Banned

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    I find it incredible how much Michael Bay has convinced you, beyond the shadow of a doubt that his way has been the only way to live action Transformers. What if I told you they can look like G1 without being blocky?
     
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  19. electronic456

    electronic456 Dog of Raw

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    [​IMG]

    You mean like this? Except he's painted red and blue.
     
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  20. Kyekjeliesh Jum

    Kyekjeliesh Jum Banned

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    No, not like this. This is just regular Bay Prime with a G1 alt mode. The statues from Prime 1 Studio, which @Cryptwire posted on the first page could be a starting point or reference to build upon, if it fits the new director's aesthetic.
     
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