Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by electronic456, Feb 16, 2018.
Is it really that big of a difference?
And what director are we talking about? Zack Snyder?
I would keep the designs for the first three films, but maybe have them toned down in detail for the sake of CGI costs. Not have so much parts moving/hanging out.
Whoever directs the reboot. He/she might go for a totally different aesthetic than we even expect. It doesn't even have to be realistic. They could make a completely fairytale-ish atmosphere for example. And in regards to difference to the original, Prime does have the least amount, but most other characters, have usually been barely recognisable visually (or otherwise).
Can you guess which version of Bumblebee is recognizable to me then? As a person who grew up during the 2000s?
I mean, different generations are different.
If your most recognisable version of Spider-Man was 2099 or Miles Morales, does that mean that we should forget about Peter Parker with the original red and blue suit and Aunt May and Mary Jane and all that comes with him? The world doesn't revolve around you. Isn't that what movie fans have been saying to the fans of the originals, which have been here long before? You may as well have grown with Kiss Players, somehow. That doesn't mean everything has to be like Kiss Players for everyone else forever.
I grew up in the 90s. My Transformers were Beast Wars. It was awesome. But I don't think you'll ever see me crying out against vehicle forms for Transformers.
That's not my point.
My point is 'recognisable' is a certain point of
Back then for me, Bumblebee was known as Hot Shot.
I mean no bias.
Well, I guess, before the movies, the most recognisable Bumblebee, was G1 Bumblebee. But that didn't stop them from a complete makeover, so, you may understand people's frustration and now our hopes for a more faithful version.
This is a fine example of how to do it, without them looking they are gonna get destroyed by a gust of wind, and are different yet faithfull to the source material and realistic.
I'd suggest they start out with the alt modes, cut them up into bits and arrange them into humanoid shapes then use robot-y bits to fill in the gaps. I'm not even being metaphorical, they should use real physical models to prototype it.
Second thing: I'd like some of the alt modes to be more traditional, the 2 that spring to mind are Flat nosed prime and small car Bee (note necessarily a beetle, though that'd bee ideal but something hatchback sized) though there are exceptions (Megatron and Soundwave would be ridiculous as a cassette player and gun)
Third thing: Give Prime a trailer. In the shows he always had a trailer until 2007 (technically cybertron's trailer doesn't count but I'd say it does) whether they are a separate unit or an integrated component (ala 2000 RID/Cybertron/Animated) but other than DOTM moviverse prime hasn't. the trailer needs to have a feasible base mode and ideally be able to become additional Armour and weapons to make super mode prime, either powermaster style (effectively a mech suit prime combines with to form it's chest) or 2000 RID style (the trailer splits up into various pieces of Armour that attach to Optimus separately)
I personally dont like this design because his chest looks awkward and flat and his lower legs just look like Iron Man armor to me. Josh Nizzi's age of time design looks much better to me, even though it has the same basic idea as the one you showed. It just looks a lot more dynamic imo
I kinda prefer this one compared to the other myself, as well. It would still support my "theory of de-evolution" without looking TOO awkward.
I can float with that too. I didnt post it as the design to go to, but that they can design them with a realistic mindset, yet they can still be reminicent of their roots.
That makes no sense. The point I'm trying to make with the Alternators is that they ARE REAL... Basing the transformations on an Alternators design or something similar ensures that it actually works without having to break the laws of physics to do it.
How can something that is actually real not look real? It is literally impossible for anything to look less realistic than the movies already do and something that actually works sure as hell isn't going to look less real. That's like trying to argue that the Batmobile would look more realistic if it was entirely animated, overly complex for no reason, full of holes, and able to magically morph into the Bat Jet instead of being an actual functioning car.
Lets use the Power Rangers Zords as an example. The original Megazord looks more realistic than the new movie design does. It looks real because it is. It's designed in a way that it can actually function in the real world without cheating. Granted it's blocky and goofy looking but we're talking about realism here. The original Megazord I believe the transformation sequence is literally just shot with the toys. And then the completed Megazord is a guy in a suit. With the movie designs, they didn't even show the transformation, likely because it's physically impossible and unlike Transformers they realized how freaking fake it looks on screen to see thousands of parts morphing into an impossibly different shape like that. It looks fake because it's so obvious that the two modes can't turn into each other.
Now I'm not saying that the completed robot should be a guy in a suit cause that's just going to end up looking like a guy in a costume not like a real robot. I'm only talking about the transformation here. If Hasbro can design toys that transform into model quality cars like the Alternators were, then using that as a basis for the transformation would allow the animators to make something that looks real instead of being forced to cheat.
And yeah I know the cartoons cheat too, however they're cartoons, this is a live action movie. Cheating in live action just makes it look like a cartoon. It doesn't look real because they have to cheat. Also because there are so many moving parts that means that the movies actually cheat MORE than the cartoons ever did. It is literally impossible to look less realistic than the movie designs. The less the animators have to cheat, and the more realistic the animations are going to look. When the transformations are literally impossible without cheating it's going to look fake. Other transformations actually end up looking more real even though they're cartoons because there is less cheating to make them work.
Example. We've had multiple toys of G1 Optimus. They've taken some creative liberties but they've managed to make him work. The animation cheats a lot even though it's a simple design but the fact that it's realistically possible makes it easier to over look those cheats. He ends up being more realistic than the live action version. Movie Optimus, has so many moving parts, he's so complicated to work even as a simplified toy he's overly complex. This means more cheating and there's no way to accept him as something that's actually going to function in the real world.
If you were to swap those two designs. CGI the G1 Optimus with real world textures and details it might look a little silly but he'd actually be more realistic. If you made the movie design into a simplified 2D animation, he'd actually be more acceptable cause you really don't expect realism out of a cartoon in the first place.
The real problem with G1 Transformers is that they don't have interiors which for an Autobot who has to be able to carry a human passenger is a problem... and this is true for all TF designs which is why I like the Alternators so much because they were designed to actually have interiors. That's basically what I want out of a live action movie Transformer, is a design that can actually transform in real life, no cheating allowed. I want the animators to make them as realistic as possible which means using real transformations that are actually physically possible. No more magically disappearing parts, no more magically sealing panel lines, no more mass shifting, no more trading one unrealistic cheat for another, just actual working transformations.
Basically looking silly is not the same as looking less realistic. Realism is just about what is physically possible. Movie transformers are not. Alternators are. It's that simple. The more animators and toy designers have to cheat to make something work the less realistic it is. In order for something to actually look real, that requires building a real world version first to prove it can actually work in the real world. The Alternators are the best currently existing example of real transformers. They could probably make them look better as in less silly but in terms of actual functioning transformations there is nothing that could ever look more realistic than that because those are real functioning transformations.
And on this we agree... But again, I only brought up Alternators because of the transformations. IDW does have some great designs but they suffer from some of the same problems as the cartoons. Bumblebee for example, while he is leaps and bounds better than his movie counterpart he also doesn't really have an interior. How's a human suppose to ride in him realistically if in the real world his vehicle mode is full of robot parts. I'm looking at my Generations Goldfire right now, same mold as IDW Bumblebee. I open the door and I'm greeted to a view of his arm and feet. There's no place to sit in this thing. I mean I suppose I could lay across where the dash board should be cause there's a decent amount of empty space right there but it doesn't really look comfortable. There's nothing to really secure me in place so I'd just be thrown around.
Again, most transformers end up with this problem. Alternators and Human Alliance are really the only toy lines that were specially designed with an interior vehicle in mind. However Alternators does a better job cause they aren't broken up like the Human Alliance toys and require far less cheating to accomplish. Now if you can design something new that's similar to these and looks even better, then I'd be all for that.
The problem with that is... instead of making them less realistic than actual Cybertronians they should of made of them more clunky and simplified.
If they ever revisit this idea, and I do like the idea. It was also done in Prime and Rescue Bots. The concept of human designed Transformers is an interesting one. If they do it again in a reboot. The way I would design them to look more human then the actual Cybertronians. Face designs, Cybertronians, I think should maintain the complex design from the current movies because it allows for far more expressive faces. However human built transformers since they are not sentient have no need for their faces to be expressive. There for make them look more solid and boring. To make it seem like they're terrible at transforming, make them more simplistic. They were being controlled remotely so how about just don't bother giving them interiors. If the toy version would have robot bits instead of seats then the on screen version should be full of robot parts. And while real transformers tend to transform everything in one smooth motion, make the human designed transformers more clunky. This way the transformations are physically possible but it still feels like the Human designed Transformers are bad at transforming.
Just as an example, lets say Optimus Prime, he can be rolling in vehicle mode, both arms extend simultaneously, pushing him up in the air as his legs extend together, and his head pops out as he lands and starts sprinting all in one fluid motion without having to stop. The humans make their own design based on him but Fakemus Prime rolls to a stop before we see arms emerge one at a time, then the arms physically lift himself up, the legs again one at a time emerge, he stands himself up, and finally the head pops up. Basically the same transformation except Optimus can do a lot more in one fluid motion while Fakemus is doing a lot less but in stages. It'd be like Optimus as a living machine is able to process all the steps of his transformation all at once while the human is having to go threw it step by step as he pilots the drone. They'd still manage to transform in about the same amount of time though because the real transformers have more moving parts cause they actually have interiors that they gotta deal with while the humans ones have less parts cause they're not trying to look like real cars. If they both had to pass as real cars the transformers would be faster but since the human designed transformers would be remote piloted allowing them to skip a few steps in the transformations then the times would even out.
The different sound effects could help too... for the human built ones, if you slowed it down and lowered the pitch it'd sound like slow clunking noises rather than quick shifting sounds that Transformers normally use.
The way they did it in AoE actually has the opposite effect. Instead of making the KSI Transformers look like less advanced Earth made copies, they look like they're MORE advanced than actual Cybertronians. Humans have studied "Transformium" for only a few short years and have managed to figure out that it can only change into any shape but is able to come apart and reassemble itself in a different location... teleportation... Humans invented teleportation using the metal all Transformers are made of. Sentinel Prime invented giant pillars that open a portal which is also a form of teleportation but the human version is more streamlined and the actual Cybertronians have had access to the same metal for millions of years without ever knowing it could do this?
Oh and Jetfire was able to open a Space Bridge which also makes no sense if he's so old that Sentinel's technology hadn't been invented yet then how is Jetfire able to do that? Anyway, the KSI Teleporting robots also run a lot smoother than Jetfire.
Of course my idea for making them more clunky if they're human built seems to be how the current films shows a Transformer's age. They could still have them more rusted and falling apart to show age instead of making them so clunky.
I hope that Optimus stays a long nose truck at least. I prefer them to flat nose trucks. I think this design is pretty good:
IMO a mixture between updated G1 designs (carmodes lifted to 2018/2019 worldwide car manufactures) and Bayverse.
The slightly simpeler designs could leave room for more bots on screen.
Let's be realistic here for a moment. No matter what the designs end up looking like, it will never please everyone.
In every movie there has been mixed feelings regarding the transformers aesthetics.
Take this concept art for instance.
I believe it to balance both thr old and new aesthetics. Someone else will disagree though.
If Hasbro will have more control, I hope they keep the characters looking somewhat like this.
I can't imagine new Designs in reboot
All from 1-5 looks awesome
That's certainly true. The TF fanbase is iconic for being EXTREMLY hard to please often and it's certainly not going to change when the reboot does come around to being made. I wouldn't at all be shocked if the reboot designs will end up being just as hated if not more so then the ones we have right now.
I'd rather they make one more Bayverse Movie (whoever directs it). to wrap it up (for marketing reasons).
Then they can reboot it.
Visually I have no special preferences. Whatever they do it will be it's own thing regardless.
Separate names with a comma.