What is the criteria for a Transformer to die?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Dark Jedi, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. Dark Jedi

    Dark Jedi Well-Known Member

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    I believe the first on screen death of a Transformer we ever saw was Optimus Prime. The scene is called "The Death of Optimus Prime" along with an accompany music score of the same name. So we know that Primegave his life in a final showdown with Megatron. He gave away the Matrix and then lost all life support functions. When he did this he appeared for the first time to turn lifeless and gray. The only other time we see this occur is right before Starscream is turned into ash. He also becomes lifeless and gray. Having said that Wheeljack and Windcharger who we do not see become gray even though they appear lifeless do not qualify as dead given the above definition. Ironhide we can assume become lifeless and gray though it was not shown on film. Prowl we can sort of see go lifeless due to the eye flicker just not his gray body being shown. Ratchet received the same amount of damage as Ironhide give or take a shot but was not blasted by Megatron. His gray body was never shown either.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. GuardianPrime19

    GuardianPrime19 Prime

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    Prime turned Gray because when the Matrix was removed, his spark went with it
     
  3. Dark Jedi

    Dark Jedi Well-Known Member

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    Starscream had no Matrix but turned gray so your point is invalid.
     
  4. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    This actually differs depending on the continuity. In the Marvel G1 comics, a Transformer can't actually die as long as their memories and programming are intact.

    Cartoon G1 is a little harder to figure out. Judging from the movie, there seems to be a certain threshold of energon/fluid loss that can't be recovered from. Transformers also appear to require a functioning laser core, which I believe was later retconned as essentially a spark crystal. Confusingly, transformers can still survive the complete destruction of their bodies if their personality components are preserved first... or if they become ghosts :p 

    In Beast Wars and pretty much everything after, Transformers die if they lose spark containment, and can survive basically anything else except that.

    I think the whole "turning gray" thing was just for dramatic effect, to visually emphasize that yes, the character is now lifeless. It wasn't used if the character didn't get their own dramatic death scene like Optimus and Starscream.
     
  5. BumblebeeFan71

    BumblebeeFan71 Loyal Starscream Follower

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    Actually the first was Brawn. Charged at Megatron and got blasted in the shoulder which some how resulted in his death. My brother and I keep making jokes about it to this day.
     
  6. Chopperface

    Chopperface All the Stars Are Closer

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    I remember that Animated adopted turning grey as the rule for death, too. I never really had any opinion on it, but I guess it would impede instances where they reuse the corpse for something later, like Prime Breakdown, and they want to make a toy of it and not have it be gray.
     
  7. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    The concept of Sparks wouldn't be invented for another ten years...
     
  8. Dark Jedi

    Dark Jedi Well-Known Member

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    Yes he was shot first and allegedly went lifeless and possibly turned gray which we never saw. Prime we saw both things occur.

    Also of note Ultra Magnus was torn apart and went lifeless yet did not turn gray hence why he was revived later. Unicron was blown up from within and had a similar death to Starscream but his body never turned gray as his head became the living object of himself.
     
  9. GuardianPrime19

    GuardianPrime19 Prime

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    Well Starscream was kinda INCINERATED by Galvatron... Charred remains are usually coloured like that.

    That's just the explanation that is logical to me... The matrix holds the Knowledge of the primes, it would make sense for it to take his life force with it
     
  10. Dark Jedi

    Dark Jedi Well-Known Member

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    Unicron was incinerated by the Matrix yet he did not char and turn gray. Also of note why didn't the crown char and turn gray? If you notice the cape remains purple until it disappears from the frame. The only other incidence is the shoulder pads which appear to turn to ash like the rest of his body which would have been heated to extreme temperatures to turn metal into dust.
     
  11. Smitty.1981

    Smitty.1981 Rusting...

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    You took a fusion blast to the shoulder, you died.
     
  12. batfan007

    batfan007 Double the Dragon

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    In the us marvel comics prime died after he played a virtual reality video game with Megatron. The loser was to self terminate. The games creator secretly made a back up copy of primes personality on a disk so he still existed in the game world.
    But that prime died, and a new body was built by Nebulons, his copied personality was downloaded into his new power master body.
    There were no special circumstances for death in that story.
    In another story the throttle bots are killed, but their brain circuits are secretly removed, and later they are temporarily in toy cars until new bodies are built for them. When they get new bodies they are still the same characters with the same brain circuits, unlike in the optimus story where he was just a back up copy.
    The Marvel Comics dude who wrote those stories didn't watch the show, he just made up whatever he wanted. Which was cool, as Blaster (my favourite next to Grimlock) is a totally different and interesting character in those comics, he's a bit of a bad add, and a capable fighter who even gives Grimlock a run for his money in a big fight, the cartoon Blaster would not stand a chance against Grimlock.
    The other awesome bit is when Shockwave single handedly beats all the Autobots, strings them up like cattle and decapitates Prime, it's actually pretty disturbing!
    he also repeatedly challenges Megatron, and pretty much calls him crazy and incompetent to his face, and tries to kill him on several occasions. I love it!

    [​IMG]

    "There's two things you can do about a decapitated Optimus Prime Buster Witwicky....NOTHING and LIKE IT!"
     
  13. batfan007

    batfan007 Double the Dragon

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    I see the turning grey as showmanship, they are selling the scene with the emphasis on how primes death effects those right next to him in the room, and I imagine to make it clear he's not going to pop up again at the end of the movie alive and well etc.
    So I'd go with artistic effect/emphasis rather than any sort of lore than tformers turn grey in death. It's a symbol of his life force leaving his body, whatever that force may be.
     
  14. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    You can point it out til you're blue in the face, since it first appeared in BW, it and every other concept that didn't apply to TFs at the time suddenly retconned in. And it continues to this day. CR chambers, CNA, Stasis Lock.



    For the OP: until the movie, TFs were treated like machines with a reasonable facsimile of life. Remember when Prime was completely disassembled, and had to have his head rewired simply to have power to talk? Or how about the Combaticons having their Personality Components in a storage locker for millions of years? Or how about the massive destruction wrought on the Autobots and Decepticons when the Ark crashed, necessitating massive repairs in the very PILOT of the series?

    The more I think of it, the more I grow dissatisfied of the movies for the changes it brought, and the contradictions that resulted.
     
  15. Psychoshi

    Psychoshi Grammaton Cleric

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    Is Megatron a zombie, since he's always grey? I'm kidding...

    Also, if you look carefully, Prowl does turn grey after he gets shot in the movie.
     
  16. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

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    Loss of Technicolor and crapping their innards *nods*
     
  17. Smitty.1981

    Smitty.1981 Rusting...

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    The thing is Death was not a thing until the 86 movie, because it was a children's cartoon. Then it was a major house cleaning of charters that would no longer have toys. Then it was back to a children's cartoon.

    I did not read the G1 comics so I can't comment on that, but in the G2 comics, death was a very real thing, but I don't recall what it took to kill a Transformer other than being consumed by the swarm.

    It would not be until Beast Wars that death became a real thing again, and it that show it took some extremes to kill off anybot. Since then each continuity has had it own rules on what can kill a transformer.
     
  18. batfan007

    batfan007 Double the Dragon

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    Half of nearly all Transformers lore has been retconned in. You take that stuff out and there basically is no lore.
    you've got the first episode of the G1 show (some bots came from cybertron, Civil war, oh no, earth modes! Teletran 1 baby)
    and then the movie (optimus dies, new toys on shelves soon from HAS-BRO'S, ...fuck you kids and good night!)

    Just about everything else in the G1 cartoon is a loveable contradictory mess, it was never meant as any sort of continuity, although the writers did try to establish some basic lore/rules etc.
    Then at some point Simon Furman (and others) came along and put a bunch of contradictory stuff together (including his own contradictory stuff) and kind of carried the torch between things, and some of that stuff was kept, and some thrown out. Now it's a big crazy mix of G1 US cartoon, G1 Jap cartoon, G1 marvel comics, G1 Uk comics and more that later got recycled into other new shows along with new ideas.
     
  19. batfan007

    batfan007 Double the Dragon

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    Yes he is a zombie. He always was, you just figured it out?
    That's why he always craving those Energon cubes. His hunger never ends.
    Either that or he was just a rich old time oil tycoon with a maniacal laugh out to ruin the environment. Or was that Captain Planet? Those 80's cartoons start to blend together after a while.
    did I mention how much I hate Captain Planet? You'd watch it and just HOPE it would get canned or something good would be on after.
    Stupid mullet head. When will he learn.
     
  20. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    Does this mean there are two different Optimuses? What about his spark? (I know the concept of Sparks weren't invented back then but retcons and stuff.)
     

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