What is so bad about "Robot heaven"?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by FanimusMaximus, Jun 9, 2010.

  1. FanimusMaximus

    FanimusMaximus Well-Known Member

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    Ok, after seeing Revenge of the fallen we all know that Sam goes to this form of robot heaven to discover his destiny or something like that. And after seeing that I've seen people bashing it. I mean really Transformers go to some sort of heaven after they die, so what? Hontestly I think the whole Transformers heaven thing kinda makes the TF franchise separate from the other Robotic themed franshises because it shows that the Transformers are "living" and have some sort of religion, thus making them seintient life form and not just a bunch of cold machines. And being Christian myself it brings a sense of familiarity amongst the Tranformers.

    See what I mean?
     
  2. Mister Gone

    Mister Gone Macro-Con

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    It just kind of added a level of silliness to what was supposed to be portrayed as a serious and gritty movie. It's like if at the end of the Dark Knight (spoiler alert) it showed Harvey Dent skipping through heaven with Rachel and his face was all fixed up. If they had at least included something that let the audience know that is was all an illusion created by Sam's interaction with the allspark for example, it would have been easier for the audience to swollow. There are a lot of things that go unexplained and really jar the audience in TF2, but that can be written off to the writer's stike etc.
     
  3. MenasorMaster

    MenasorMaster Stunticon Warrior

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    It was in sams mind, maybe cybertronians surface looks similar.
     
  4. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    It HAS to exist, I mean, where would all the calculators go?
     
  5. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    I don't see what's so bad, it wasn't even robot heaven. It was the Matrix. It's was almost a direct remake of the G1 Matrix trip Rodimus took, meeting the past Primes and whatnot.

    Don't be silly.

    They go to caculator heaven.
     
  6. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Or a robot heaven all in Sam's head literally.

    The Allspark pretty much records everything the Transformers do. It downloaded its entire database in Sam's brain. Later the data transferred to the Matrix of Leadership which reformed.

    In this regard Transformers are probes that relay data back to the Allspark. This similar to the conception of the Allspark in Beast Machines where Sparks are sent out to the universe to explore and when they die they return to the amalgamated intelligence with the knowledge they accumulated.
     
  7. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot The Strongest.

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    That Dark Knight comparison is not only stretching it, it's full on snark. No basis in honesty. As others have stated, it's the Matrix. It has been portrayed canonnically as something that can be "entered" and in which one can speak with leaders of the Autobots' past. The movie is no different, only this time it's a human speaking with them.
     
  8. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    Bingo. The way it appeared was simply the way that Sam's human mind perceived it. I still don't see how this was in any way hard to understand at all.
     
  9. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    like near-death experiences, it could just be put down to some crazy hallucination, if you're so inclined.

    At that stage in the movie, they'd already disappointed and offended me such that robot heaven didn't exactly ruin it.
     
  10. FanimusMaximus

    FanimusMaximus Well-Known Member

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    Well thats works......I think.
     
  11. Human Beastbox

    Human Beastbox The Murdinator

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    At that stage of the movie, I had exactly no idea what the hell was going on, so I just rolled with it. :D 
     
  12. Mister Gone

    Mister Gone Macro-Con

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    No snark intended. What I was saying is that the casual viewer needs a queue to show that it is connected to the matrix (which is in powder form at this point). What the general audience sees is Sam "die" then go to a place with clouds and light and robots and, well the non-transformers fan will figure it's Autobot Heaven. Now for the educated transformers fan, they could assume it was the well of allsparks and Sam was accessing via his interaction with the shard of the Allspark and his proximity with the Matrix but even then, we were not shown that is the case. It was an example of a plot point being presented but not fully explained. I just used the Dark Knight cause was the first movie that popped to mind.
     
  13. jamjam101

    jamjam101 Well-Known Member

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    robo heaven? pppfffff, it exists just as much as doggie heaven, kittin heaven and hamster heaven
     
  14. Ops_was_a_truck

    Ops_was_a_truck JOOOLIE ANDREWWWWWS!!!!!!

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    If you remove yourself from the Transformers canon aspect and look at this objectively, from an average movie-goer's perspective, you'll see why this was silly.

    The idea of the the hero transcending to heaven to receive that last bit of power/information/strength they need to go on is a cinematic trope that has been repeated ad nauseum in modern cinema. Sometimes, it's done relatively well - the supernatural Jedi offering Luke his last bit of training in Star Wars, for example. Horror movies are ripe with it. Without belaboring the point, I guess one reason I found it silly is because this is a story that focuses on giant robots. Conventionally, (and, again, I'm consciously removing myself from my knowledge of the TF canon) giant robots are, well, mechanical, and blatantly suggesting that there is an afterlife where Transformer spirits dwell is just, honestly, very skewed from an average movie-goer's perception of big fightin' robots. If you're a guy off the street, who associates these giant robots with, well, for example, CARS, it's hard to digest the idea of them having an afterlife - that smacks of religion and musings on faith, which is a VERY difficult thing to fit into a generalized, all-ages-accessible, popcorn-munching-fare fightin' robot movie.

    Additionally - and this is the reason it bugged me so much - Sam goes to robot heaven, where they say "blah blah blah you were always the chosen one or some etc. and IT IS YOUR DESTINY." This is usually considered, from a writing/storyline perspective, relatively "weak" - the characters are forced through a Deus Ex Machina scene in order to get them to that ultimate, slam-bang power-up that saves the heroes and conquers the baddies. It's no different here. Sam dies, goes to robot heaven, comes back to life, whadaPOW, the matrix suddenly reforms, etc...I mean, fuck, we've seen this a million times before. Popeye grabs the conveniently-placed spinach can, instead of trying to reason with the baddies or come to grasp with his situation. It's GREAT children's fare - and that's what transformers is, and that's what it's based on - but it doesn't (and, honestly, shouldn't) gel with a seasoned film fan, who recognizes this as what it is - a plot contrivance.
     
  15. Evil Dead

    Evil Dead Well-Known Member

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    I didn't exactly hate "robot heaven", but it did definately come off as a sort of deus ex machina (ironically enough).

    And so you have all these different things going on all at once--things that have been built up and are coming into play and are in the process of reaching a conclusion--and then, out of nowhere, you have this plot device that hasn't been set up or introduced at all, and there it is solving the major crisis at the end of the movie. And so I guess what I mean is, it would have been more feasible if they'd introduced the concept sooner.
     
  16. Rogzilla

    Rogzilla Well-Known Member

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    This...

    and this...

    ...are exactly my problem with what happened. To sum it up 1-It was never made clear what it was so people took the visual clues and drew the logical conclusion, which was that it was Heaven...for robots. 2-It didn't serve any point other than "hey, you're f*cking awesome, have a super cookie*!"

    It all comes down to my constant gripe with ROTF (and TF1 to a lesser extent); bad storytelling.

    *Its chocolate chip, by the way. The best kind of cookie!
     
  17. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Nope. It wasn't the Matrix.
    1) It wasn't the Matrix from G1. It was a key to turn on a big gun.
    2) ROTF Matrix didn't even exist any more. It was black dust and granules, scattered in the wind.

    Can't exactly say that Sam went into the Matrix if there wasn't even a Matrix to go into.

    And, from Robot Heaven, the robo-angels re-integrated the weapon key called The matrix.
     
  18. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    Transformers has always been more science fantasy than science fiction. Modern audiences are just going to have to swallow that, and put aside any preconceptions they may have had. They are alive, they're not mere machines or some wacky inventions. There's a life force.

    Having said that, I do feel they can overdo the magic device with special powers aspect. These things should be there, but they should be kept at arms length. They shouldn't be explained or overused.

    The pseudo-religious trappings of their universe, they should be treated as mythology or ancient beliefs. Maybe they're true, maybe not. They should add a certain depth and mystery, but avoid explicitly revealing the forces at play.
     
  19. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    IDK man I just know I loved that scene.

    Should've been longer too IMO, it was so beautifully done.
     
  20. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    IDK man I just know I loved that scene.

    Should've been longer too IMO, it was so beautifully done.
     

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