What I'm hoping for in Season 2 *massive spoilers*

Discussion in 'Transformers Earthspark and Cartoon Discussion' started by Snark, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    If Optimus wanted to be a saboteur aboard the Nemesis, he had no better time than when he first went looking for Megatron.

    Why would you guess it means any number of things rather than the obvious one, that there would be a price to pay for using the Matrix.
    Optimus was prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice, even before speaking those words. He had said on many occasion, that he would not allow any harm (caused by Cybertronians) to come to humans, that he would do everything within his power to prevent it.
    We aren’t watching Beast Wars. Different story, characters, writers and, well, everything else too. Optimus was saying his goodbyes, though subtlety, in this past episode. If you wish to see it differently, that’s your right; though I must admit that I am surprised to see that you would choose to believe that Optimus was faking his goodbyes and farewell preparations. The season finale was big because Optimus gave his life (basically) to save not just Earth, but all other worlds Unicron would have eventually laid waste to.
    Did he blow up along with all other Vehicons (or whatever they’re called) that didn’t flee with Starscream? Starscream fled the vicinity because he didn’t want to be destroyed like Makeshift was destined to.
     
  2. lordjimmybob

    lordjimmybob Well-Known Member

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    If Orion Pax stays on the Nemesis I would imagine SoundWave would have to keep an eye on him to make sure he shows no sympathy towards Earth or regains his memory. As for Makeshift, I think he's crippled. He had a bomb strapped to himself.
     
  3. Bountyan

    Bountyan Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be kinda weird for Makeshift to return. There was a freaking bomb/grenade on his legs.

    Plus didn't they say somewhere they they killed him off because he was too "overpowered?" at least what I heard on the podcast.
     
  4. Black Oracle

    Black Oracle Black Convoy's Dark Angel

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    :lol  Thanks.

    I was thinking it'd be cool if over a few eps. in season 2, Orion begins to rediscover his former self as fragments of his memories come back to him. They'd be triggered by simple things and watching others around him. Talking to Jack and the kids again could be familiar to him. Watching Bulkhead, Arcee and BB protecting them might jog his memory of his former mission to protect humanity. A touch from Arcee on the hand could reignite mental images of his time in the Arctic dying alongside her. He might still be instinctually wary of dark energon, not understanding why. And of course he'd probably recognise Ratchet, since Ratchet knew him as Orion Pax in the past.
     
  5. Oberoniss

    Oberoniss DOESN'T-EXIST BABBU

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    Ratchet may have known him as Orion Pax, but my headcanon says he knew him after Megatron(us) had already met Orion. If Orion/Optimus's memory has been wiped all the way back to when Megatronus and Orion were best of buds and juuuuust before (like, three or four days before) he met Ratchet, that could easily throw a wrench into that plan.

    Of course my headcanon is probably wrong, but that's why it's headcanon and not official canon. :tongue: 
     
  6. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    This is what I see happening to. As the Wisdom of the Primes slowly replaces itself, so too will Optimus’ memories.
     
  7. Xaddion

    Xaddion ...

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    You know what would be craaaazy?

    If amnesiac Optimus Prime killed off one of the main Autobots.
     
  8. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    What you're talking about is someone who's different from Orion Pax. Do you think Orion is going to change again? I can see Megatron setting events up to work in his favor, and I can see Orion trying to save him, but Orion wanted to unify Cybertron, not to have A vs B. I don't think he has it in him to kill another.
     
  9. Black Oracle

    Black Oracle Black Convoy's Dark Angel

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    That's possible, in which case, Orion wouldn't recognise any of the Autobots! Uh oh!

    Well remembered quote, Transformed! Of course, Optimus could have had anything in mind when he said that. Maybe he suspected that his mind would be lost, but he believed that his spark would still guide him back to the Autobots, even without remembering them. Or more bleakly, maybe he just said "until I return" in order not to alarm Jack. But it is a good possible indicator of Optimus' belief of returning to the Autobots somehow as he was.

    I was thinking it'd be rather tragic if one of the Autobots did perish and Orion, unable to remember him/her, could not grieve for him/her.

    I don't think it's in Orion's nature to kill others though.
     
  10. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    Honestly I´m hopping for Breakdown to defect to the Autobots. The guy saved Bulkhead´s life and he did hesitated when he was ordered to kill him.
     
  11. Bountyan

    Bountyan Well-Known Member

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    He didn't seem to mind when Knock Out was about to decapitate him though.
     
  12. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    True. The action of saving Bulkhead´s life was reflex. I think even he was weirded out. But then again "These guys came to save me, Maybe they aren´t so bad?" could be used as an argument.
     
  13. Kaymac

    Kaymac I'M REALLY FEELIN' IT!

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    He'd only do it in very strange circumstances, such as if Megatron was in danger, or if Megatron managed to corrupt his mind to that point. Think a sort of Palpatine/Anakin relationship.
     
  14. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    But at that time he was an enemy, when seen as an ally, with permission to access many areas of the ship, that allows for easy and detailed information gathering.

    I never said it didn't mean the obvious one, I it could be any number of things INCLUDING the actual words he's said. Optimus has shown that he's willing to use certain deception-based techniques in different situations when he deems them necessary.

    I'm sure he was willing to, but I'm also sure he was prepared for a number of contingency plans should different situations had come up, not one plan tends to go accordingly and a good leader knows how to prepare for many unexpected/undesired turns.

    Good writing, strategizing and planning aren't limited to just Beast Wars.

    I in no way said that IS what he's doing, nor that I believe that is what he's doing, I'm merely posing a potential possibility. I have no faith in one path or another, I'm merely keeping my mind open and considerate to potential "maybe"s. Do not mistake me for otherwise.
     
  15. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    You’re talking about the Autobot who gave a group of Decepticons the choice to walk away or stay and die when he boarded their ship; the Autobot who didn’t attack Unicron until attacked—he tried to reason with Unicron. We’re talking about the guy who scolded Ratchet for torturing the enemy for information, why would you believe Optimus would even consider blowing up the Nemesis?

    If Optimus wanted to destroy the Nemesis, he could have had Ratchet groudbridge explosives onto it when he was in its innards, he had the ships coordinates.

    For example? A few episodes were dedicated to him teaching both Arcee and Bulkhead to rise above their desire for revenge and to learn to let go and forgive. There were times when the Autobots themselves had done questionable things and Arcee, I think it was, had said that that was something Optimus wouldn’t have done.

    When you have an enemy that is of one mindset you can. Optimus, the Autobots, really, know what the Decepticons would like to do. Though outnumbered, they’ve managed to thwart their efforts at every turn.

    Optimus going with Megatron is a game changer (for the time being). By putting Optimus in the direct line of fire, the Autobots are sure to be reluctant to do much of anything, and should Megatron succeed in getting Optimus to participate in something heinous, the Autobots will never be seen the same way again. Would they be forced to leave Earth, leaving them defenseless to Decepticon attack—this scenario, however, I think is very unlikely, as Orion Pax is still the same guy the Council and Primus chose to see Cybertron through its time of need. He still poses the innate characteristics to be a Prime.

    No doubt. Still, this is a very different show written by very different people. Perhaps it’s too early to tell, but Beast Wars felt like it was made more for an older crowd (G1 fans) than for new comers (children), sexual innuendos were almost at every turn. Transformers: Prime while being made exclusive made for children has found a way to appeal to the mature side of the fandom.
    So you’re saying you didn’t present the idea of Optimus faking his memory loss or him deceiving Jack to keep his cover? My bad. Why would anyone go out of his/her way to propose an idea that he/she doesn’t even believe has an iota of actually happening?
     
  16. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    We're also talking about the Autobot who has killed many Vehicons, not scolded his comrades about killing humans (MECH), and attempted to kill a once former friend. Why would I believe it? Because it is filled with a considerable amount of enemies. He may try to gain a few recruits before hand, but we may never know.

    It is perhaps likely 1) the Autobots didn't have the necessary explosives that he could be gaining from the Nemesis. Or perhaps 2) it would be wiser to determine the ship's schematics/blueprints so it only needs one well-placed bomb instead of several at random.

    When he distracted Megatron in Darkness Rising part 5 so the other Autobots could sneak away and destroy the Space Bridge. In Convoy, the main idea was to stay in alt-form so MECH wouldn't realize they were autonomous, as well as the whole switching the DNGS onto the train thing. Out of His Head had Optimus use Arcee and Bulkhead as bait for Breakdown while he sneaked atop the Nemesis to stop Starscream and Knock Out. T.M.I. had the Autobots fake the energy signature to the Data Cylinder to lead Megatron to their location. In One Shall Fall, while Megatron had turned away, Optimus and Bulkhead evaded him and stowed away onto the Nemesis. Deception is key in war, at least according to Sun Tzu.

    Mindset =/= possible actions. Megatron may have one goal but he uses various means, and Optimus knows this, and knows many of Megatron's means. Optimus may not've been able to survive an encounter with Megatron, and also had to strongly hold onto the option that the other Autobots may not've been able to come to his rescue. Also capturing/destroying Megatron won't stop the Decepticon war machine on Earth, he's seen that Starscream was willing to take control, Optimus knows that if not Starscream, then someone else (ended up being Airachnid) would try to take command and press forward).

    I disagree, firstly, I think there were only two innuendos. Secondly, Beast Wars felt more like a children's show to me, like TFA. TFP I have found to be a Transformers show meant for Transformers fans: new and seasoned.

    That's not very "exclusive" then, is it? I don't know how much children's programming has evolved, but with the explicit death scenes and mature language (not profane), I don't see this as purely a kids' show.

    Faking his memory, I did not come up with the idea.
    Deceiving Jack to keep his cover, I did consider without direct outside influence.

    Don't worry about it.

    I didn't say it doesn't even have a chance of happening, either. Please do not put words into my mouth, you have done that far too much in this discussion. I consider it a possibility; but that does not inherently mean I find it (im)probable. There is nothing truly wrong in pondering unexpected possibilities, even seemingly unlikely ones, like Optimus seemingly losing his memory, or that Unicron ended up being the Earth's core, or that there would be any human deaths in the show, even if minor.
     
  17. TFW10

    TFW10 Well-Known Member

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    My Wishful Thoughts:

    Starscream brings in his own brigade or clones himself and dukes it out with Megatron; gets defeats and teams up with Megatron again.

    Wheeljack comes back with new bots which he picked up along the way.

    Chimera project is a success and turns on MECH and joins the cons.

    Air....nid (sp) teams up with Unicron (if he's still alive) to get even with everyone.

    Bumblebee gets his voice back.

    Prime gets his memory back.

    Someone of the Nemesis finds Starscream's hidden Unicron shard.

    Lab test results from the Synthetic Energon experiments.

    Find out if Dark Energon has side effects on Raf.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2011
  18. Dargor

    Dargor Well-Known Member

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    Question: Is Dark Energon still functional, after Unicron´s demise? Megatron was planning to use all his supplies to raise the entire Cybertron as a zombie planet.
     
  19. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    He didn’t need to scold the his Autobots from defending themselves from soldiers. Let’s not forget that MECH fired on the Autobots first. Optimus really got into Ratchet because he did two things which were very un-Autobots; he tortured a Decepticon for information, a civilian no less. Optimus made it clear that civilians are offlimits, but soldiers that soldiers were fair game.
    If the situation is dire enough for Optimus to fake amnesia to blow up the Nemesis, I’m sure he would have found a way to do it a few episodes back when he had the opportunity to do so. Surely, the Nemesis carries flammable goods, munitions and the like, somewhere on the ship. The Nemesis isn’t a one of a kind ship, the Harvester shown in the episode Partners bore the exact same designs, and the Harvester crashed many years ago. Chances are the Autobots already know what the ship can do or at least what it’s likely capable of, and Optimus didn’t look too lost on the ship while on board.
    How is creating a diversion a Decepticon based technique? How is staying in alt-mode a Decepticon based technique? They (Cybertronians) are robots in disguise; subterfuge is in their making, both the Autobots and the Decepticons have taken alt-modes to avoid detection. None of the examples you’ve presented are “Decepticon based techniques.” The Decepticons are known for rampaging, pillaging and laying waste. Drop me a line when the Autobots start doing things of that nature.

    Ratchet’s rant in T.M.I. made it a point that Optimus didn’t destroy Megatron during the several chances he had all because Optimus wanted to mend the differences between the two factions. And let’s not forget that Optimus called Megatron out in during the season finale to do just that, to kill Megatron. Ending Megatron would put the Decepticons in disarray, just as removing Optimus from the Autobots has. Who knows what would happen with Megatron out of the picture—the Decepticons joined Megatron’s cause because his charismatic messaged moved them. We do not know what they would do with him gone, though I think it’d be a fair assumption to think some would stay.

    Beast Wars didn’t include Starscream, Unicron, the Ark, Golden Discs, the Nemesis, Ravage, Teletran-1 just for the hell of it. How many children got the die-cast construction reference? Beast Wars’ mature subject matter was new to Transformers and continued pretty much to the end though was played down a bit towards its end. The sexual innuendos weren’t limited to dialog.

    Why did Beast Wars end? Why did Hasbro make the change to Beast Machines? I don’t know if what I heard was true—can’t say that I cared too much to fully research the answer, but if what I heard was true Beast Wars appealing to older fans more than younger fans, that is a problem for a cartoon designed to sell toys to children. Transformers Prime, too, must do the same. The Transformers Prime crew had a round table interview this past summer talking about their goal to make a children’s show that the whole family could enjoy.

    But you backed it.
    I never said you did. I wondered how a person could propose an idea and not believe it had a chance of happening. Commenting further will only continue the confusion.
    I guess we’ll have to wait until November to see for sure. I, however, think that Dark Enegon (its powers), wherever it may be, went out completely when Unicron’s spark was vanquished. Worldwide disasters all came to a head when Unicron ceased to exist, Megatron 2.0 and Unicron Antibodies lost their power ups too.
     
  20. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    Why wouldn't it be? Blood is still blood and work like blood after you die.

    Besides, they said the matrix would put him into statis, not kill him.