That might, perhaps, be the reaction of fans. But the rest of the world would just sit in the theater asking themselves "what the fuck is THIS?"

The problem is, most fans can't shed their fan perspective long enough to look objectively at what would be successful for a film such as this.

When I want to see "Transform and Roll Out," I'll turn on the DVD player. These stories have already been told, and do not need to be told again.

Besides, if you think Animated's pilot was dark, then I'd hate to see your reaction to a Stephen King novel.

 

I am in total agreement with this. I questioned from the very outset the logic behind "Superman Returns." (I won't even get into the whole "Lois has a baby" boondoggle.) Superman had literally DECADES of material between the 80's movies and the release of "Returns." Hell, the Crisis on Infinite Earths even happened, and Superman as a character was totally re-written in the comics. I think what the majority of the people really wanted to see was "Superman Dies" and use the original Doomsday treatment. As it was, "Returns" just dropped us into an Elseworlds version of the character, starts off literally in the middle of the story, forgets that even people who saw the movies 20 years ago still need to be brought up to speed, and then goes on to present us with a guy who sort of looks like Christopher Reeve and wears a Superman suit, but doesn't really feel like the real thing. That movie fails for the exact opposite reason that Batman Begins succeeded, which is maddening if you think about it.

And yet a broad contingent of Transformers fans want a movie just like that: a movie that dives straight into the mythos without first bringing the unfamiliar viewer on board, that assumes the viewer is knowledgeable about the universe in question, that re-hashes tired or dated plot points in order to ape the original, and that, as a result, turns the Autobots and Decepticons into something that the average non-Transformer fan can't empathize with because it lacks soul and humanity.

 

Perhaps I wasn't being clear enough in my original post, Velcrohead. The bit I put forward about Animated was in relation to Animated's excellence in the plot and characterization departments as initially mentioned by Encline, not in relation to any darkness in series tone.

I'm not sure, though, if your statement about ordinary movie-goers ending up all at sea would hold true. The Animated episodes that I used to generate the above-mentioned hypothetical movie would meld together to form a pretty self-explanatory plot that I'm sure even the uninitiated could comprehend.

 

Hmm, good point. If Nolan would have directed it, it would sure be a lot darker, which would be very nice, IMO. When I saw the trailers for TF1, and I saw the part with Optimus transforming from behind, that looked very dark to me, but the movie actually is not so dark at all. It could have been darker if you ask me. More serious if you ask me. That would be my only gripe with TF1. Oh well, maybe part 2 is gonna be a bit darker. If the official movie website is anything to go by, I would say that TF: ROTF is going to be a lot darker indeed.

 

True, but that story has already been told. If you put it on film, you'd have fans saying "hey, why isn't there a new story here?"

 

James Cameron, Steven Spielberg, Robert Zemeckis maybe?

But I agree that Bay and Transformers was fate. Spielberg knew exactly what we would be getting by agreeing to let Bay direct it.

Bay said it himself on the commentary that he wanted this to be the one movie that any kid must own because its just so cool.

If you get someone like Chris Nolan to direct it, a kid won't be able to follow the movie if it were something like lets say The Dark Knight or The Prestige. Those 2 movies had a very adult-contemporary feel to them and wasn't really meant for kids. Bay gave us what G1 was and that was a very simple, mindless action movie with robots in it.

 

Much as I loved TDK, I don't think the same treatment would work as well with TF. It could please many fans, but it wouldn't generate enough commercial success as the movie companies would want, so I highly doubt it will happen.


I can see TF2 and perhaps TF3 having darker, more serious aspects to their plotlines, but we won't be seeing it to the depth of movies such as TDK, because as mentioned earlier. Transformers are all about explosions and exciting fun things.

 

Id watch it, it'll definitely be good. But it goes againt Nolan's realistic approach to things.

Id like to see a Cloverfield version of Trypticon raiding a city
or a Frank Miller TF movie on just the cassette bots lol. He'd be genious with Rumble/Frenzy's personalities

 

here we go again

just about every continuity has a degree of campiness to it, that's part of the appeal in it. TDK works well because the batman series has been rooted in darkness and conflict, ignoring 1960-1980 and joel schumachers rubbish, and that's how it's supposed to work. thus far, the only really serious transformers franchises i can think of were beast machines(for the most part) and the current IDW series. the campiness is important(though i don't think the series is really rooted in it) because it allows for a lighter tone and lets the series be more kid friendly, kids being the key demographic of toy markets and much of the film market. this second one will likely be much less camp, because of the greater focus on transformers and the absence of characters like glen(good actor, bad character)
We have to remember the overall idea of transformers which is to sell toys. The movie and just about every other media that conveys transformers is just a series of advertisements.

and once again, you're not getting a reboot any time soon because it's a very successful and very popular new franchise. you have some good points to make luca, but they lose credibility every time you bring up this reboot subject. constructive criticism is the way to go if you want to make positive change.

 

There are so many movies, even R rated, that were very succesful on the toys market.
Most of them, even after many years.
I remember Aliens, Terminator 2, Robocop and Predator.

If you think Transformers is a succesful toy-seller, you're wrong.
At least here in Italy.

 

And in my country, TDK is a movie for all ages. No restrictions.

 

Then we still wouldn't be able to see the fight scenes.

 

WTF?

Have you not read the reports of Hasbro's mega profits over the last year or so, acknowledged to be because of Transformers' success?

I bet TF sales beat the absolute living shite out of the numbers of Alien, Terminator, Predator etc toys ever sold.

 

Why does something have to be "serious, dark and violent" to be good? Transformers was never about the psycological issues Batman often possess. Transformers is about giant robots who turn into cool vehicles that kick the crap out of each other. Batman is about a bunch of crazies who wear capes and costumes and make up where the main villians sole purpose in life is to break people's spirits and sense of good and decency. One of these two things lends itself much better to a "deeper darker" tone then the other. And it's not the one with the yellow robot named Bumblebee.

While I'll agree that there were some parts of the first film that just plain sucked, the overall theme wasn't that bad and fit for the franchise. Transformers doesn't need to be "darker" or more "serious", it needs to focus on the individual robots and their personalities. And with the sequel we'll be able to get much more of that because we know what they are, and we know they're there, so there doesn't need to be a good 40 minute warm up to them.

Plus, it's a lot easier to coax believeable drama and emotion from a veteran actor then it is to get it from a CG robot.

 

I'd say given recent Hasbro statistics, its a VERY successful toy seller.

Off topic, but I think thats awful. Its a 12A in the UK and I completely disagree with that. The only reason its got those ratings is because children will want to see it because it has a superhero in it which seems to be instantly considered kid friendly. That film is not intended for children.

 

I'll take just about any director other than Bay or Uwe Boll.

Yes Bay can come up with some inventive things in the visuals department like the bomb camera in Pearl Harbor and if you want to blow something up then he's a good one to have around. Past that and you aren't hitting on much.

Bay for whatever reason just can't do bad guys and with out a great bad guy to really push your good guy the films just lack that tension of oh my gosh the good guys might not win. His story telling also lacks so it feels more like a jumble by an ADD kid who got bored with what he was doing and just jumps to something else in the story.

Yea I know we are cursed with Bay right now and can't get rid of the guy until he jumps the shark or something, but if I was going to dream about one day then that dream would be of a director who can do character, story, and would want the robots to look like something I knew while still adding a few new twists to their look and characters to make it all exciting.

On the bright side with Bay busy on Transformers at least he can't mess up things like GI Joe and Watchmen next year.

 

Is Italy 15 years behind the rest of the world or something? Because three of those lines (Aliens, Terminator and Predator) were last seen as mass-market toylines from Kenner back in the early 1990s. Same goes for Robocop. Kenner doesn't even exist anymore - Hasbro bought them.

If any of them are still selling toys, they would be niche collector toys that only a small number of customers would buy. Aliens, Predator and Robocop haven't been seriously popular in almost two decades!
Its an incompatible comparison, but any Transformers line would completely flatten them in terms of sales, but as I said, its an unfair comparison as Transformers are sold by the hundreds and thousands of toys.


If you think that Transformers is not a successful toy-selling vehicle, you're totally and completely wrong. The fact that Hasbro made massive profits on the back of Transformers proves the success of the film as advertisement.

Given the Super Power Mega Rangers tech we've seen so far in GI Joe, you would THINK Bay is the sort of director GI Joe would need, given his love for the military, his tendancy to shoot them in a jingoistic and patriotic manner, his push for relatively realistic depictions of the modern military, military-accurate chatter and his very good relationship with the DoD.

If anything, Bay would be a much better director for GI Joe than Stephen Sommers.

 

And there was a strong movement in those days to stop turning violent R rated movies like those into kids toys. Why do you think Robocop 3 was PG-13. Heck a parents advocacy group comlained that Trasformers with it's PG-13 rating was targetting kids with toys and other kid merch.

 

This post = Win.

 

italy isn't really a key toy marketplace, no offence