What Happened To Freedom is the Right of All Sentient Beings??

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Soca Taliban, Jul 10, 2014.

  1. Soca Taliban

    Soca Taliban Well-Known Member

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    How come Optimus became a slave master?? After he freed the dinobots, the position he took is stand with me or stand against me, defend my family or die? What if the dinobots wanted to be as Switzerland and remain neutral? It wasn't their fight. Freedom is not freedom unless you take my side. It's freedom period!! Sounds more like something Megatron would say.
     
  2. deliciouspeter

    deliciouspeter Back in Black TFW2005 Supporter

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    Movie Optimus Prime gets angry and forgets things.
     
  3. Death333

    Death333 Otherwise known as Dx3

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    He took a stand because humans were slaughtering his comrades and friends and he stated such. That was one point that was clearly made in the film.
     
  4. Dragonzzilla

    Dragonzzilla Well-Known Member

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    The Dinobots are never neutral. And they're stubborn as hell. Optimus had no time for their shit, so he had to earn their respect the only way he could. Plus, he set the Dinobots free after the bargain was done. And why Switzerland? The Dinobots would probably want to high-ball out of our little dirtball of a planet and go kick some Creator ass.
     
  5. Ironhide1234

    Ironhide1234 Rust Bucket

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    Optimus hadn't the time for any of their stubbornness! I doubt he would have 'killed' them if they never stood with him....
     
  6. Soca Taliban

    Soca Taliban Well-Known Member

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    I understand why he did it, don't get me wrong, but it violates the principles he claims to stand for. By using the threat of force against other sentient beings who never attacked him or others, he's no better than Megatron. The end does not justify the means.
     
  7. Soca Taliban

    Soca Taliban Well-Known Member

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    Defend my family or die seems pretty damn clear to me. No room for any kind of doubt.
     
  8. RandomGuy

    RandomGuy Well-Known Member

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    So many people seem to be taking issue with this scene, I just don't get it.

    Optimus NEEDED the Dinobots' co-operation, and he needed it immediately. He didn't have time to talk them into following him, and they probably wouldn't have listened anyway. He needed to show them, right then and there, that he was 1: strong enough to lead them, and 2: not going to take "no" for an answer.

    They may be ancient warriors, but their portrayal is very feral and animalistic. Optimus had to assert his dominance.

    In the end, threatening the Dinobots in order to get them to follow him seems less of a violation of Prime's ethics than allowing millions to die when Galvatron detonates the Seed.
     
  9. Dragonzzilla

    Dragonzzilla Well-Known Member

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    The one thing the Dinobots respect more than strength is honor. The way they are, they way they always should be, is a clan. A family. They respect Optimus for having the balls to place his family above notions of "freedom". The Dinobots aren't philosophical. Besides, I doubt Optimus would've pulled that stunt on anyone else.
     
  10. uruseiranma

    uruseiranma Well-Known Member

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    He did seem half-drunk at times. Like when he breaks into the lab, then calms down and then wanders out.

    It's like Rip Torn getting drunk and breaking into a bank, then wondering what he was doing there in the first place.
     
  11. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    It's almost like all that time Optimus spent explaining why his perspective had changed went for naught.
     
  12. MasterZero

    MasterZero Taking a Break

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    Because the Dinobots' individual right of freedom is not as important as thousands of humans right to NOT DIE.

    He wanted their help, every second they didn't meant the bomb could go off, killing thousands, he hurried them the hell up by fighting them.

    And then you know what he did? He let them go when they had saved his family. A lot of people tend to forget that.
     
  13. Yaujta

    Yaujta Breadchildren. TFW2005 Supporter

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    How did you draw this conclusion about their beliefs and whatnot? They had absolutely no characterization in the movie aside from being walking McGuffins.

    I can understand Optimus being pushed too far, but if the dinobots would have been introduced a little earlier on, I doubt the threat would have been made. I actually wanted to see them hail him as a fellow knight, but instead they were beasts to be broken.
    Oh well.
     
  14. ChaosDonkey

    ChaosDonkey Lord Brain

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    I have not in any continuity seen Optimus try to reason with them.

    Optimus "Hello old chap,can we sit down over a cup of tea, and talk over what would it take for you to be nice and help me out and kick some but?"
    "Me Grimlock king of chess, want to beat Optimus in game"
    "Me Grimlock lose king, Grimlock SMASH FOR OPTIMUS"

    One thing we did see, the other dinos standing behind watching the fight instead of helping Grimlock.
    So there must be some kind of code between them, that will by the fans be recognized as the typical Grimlock king, kick my ass and i join you behavior.
     
  15. jamspeed

    jamspeed Follow me on Instagram _jamspeed_

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    Yes, If Bay had the Dinobots loyal and respectful all the fans would still complain. The Dinobots rarely cooperate, read their G1 bios.
     
  16. BarricadeLives

    BarricadeLives i'm you! i'm your shadow!

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    hah, pretty much this
     
  17. Chopperface

    Chopperface All the Stars Are Closer

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    ^ In FOC he did.

    He needed their help in a really desperate time, when billions and the Autobots themselves were on the verge of extinction thanks to his former allies' betrayal. "Goddamn dinosaur, you will stop your bullshit!" If they were going to choose to be his enemy, he'd kill them.

    "I need your help desperately. You're with us or you're against us." He didn't enslave them, he beat the crap out of Grimlock so he would follow his leadership until the day was won. If they weren't going to help him, they were as good as dead. And he'd remove the threat right there if that was the case. It's like beating the crap out of an insubordinate member of your group.
     
  18. autobot slapper

    autobot slapper Banned

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    I absolutely LOVED the Optimus vs Grimlock scene!! I had chills down my spine! The music was beautiful! And when Grimlock realized Optimus isn't messing around and he means everything....that was a great moment!

    I also loved the bit when Grimlock placed his hand on Scorns shoulder and they looked at each other... You can tell Grimlock is saying "he's mine!"
     
  19. Zhadow

    Zhadow Oh hi there

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    Optimus is the real villian, that's why.
     
  20. Smashs

    Smashs Internet: Pure Truth Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

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    How is it everyone remembers the freedom line, but no one remembers the 'rules have changed' line we've gotten in almost every trailer/tv spot?

    He did what had to be done.
     

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