in the episodes about protoform X...there are some silloueted shots of him in front of them wrestling around with rampage...no vehicular pictures of him pre beast wars that i can remember...

 

Okay, well I personally don't count any of the BotCon comics in my personal canon. Same way I disregard the IDW BW comics, because they're awful and add nothing to the story.

 

Finally found it, from "Proving Grounds" of Season 3. This is what I think it looked like anyway =/

 

Canon - Transformers Wiki

 

I think the point is that it IS canon... but that doesn't mean it really happened or that anyone, least of all Hasbro, ever has to acknowledge it ever again. Hasbro canon is dumb that way. Always has been.  

Exactly. Though when anything can be explained by way of an "alternate universe", it kind of renders the whole question of "canon" moot, I think.

I mean, really... we, as fans, consider and care about the value and implications of "canon" way more than ANYONE at Hasbro does, at least in any official capacity. I can pretty much guarantee it. Basically, the Crumplezone repaint of Primal is canon only until something else, which may or may not be better, comes along.

It's especially hilarious when one considers that Primal pre-dates the very existence of that Crumplezone repaint by about a 10 years, so it raises the question of what Primal's alt mode was intended to be for the decade BEFORE someone decided to repaint a Cybertron mold as an easy out for a convention exclusive?  

Though I will re-iterate... it's a good match. I think it fits him pretty nicely.

zmog

 

At a guess, I would say none.

 

True, Hasbro can chose to acknowledge or ignore the martial.

But, as far as I know, as of now, the pre-Beast wars martial [Arcee is a Spider] is officially part of the toon continuity, and the Kup as an Elite is part of the TFA toon continuity.

Not really.

Its just that so many confuse the terms "canon" with "continuity".

Anything thats offically produced, and published is canon, but that doesnt equal continuity.

 

Possibly true. But if in the interceding 10 years, nobody at Hasbro considered it, isn't that kind of sad? When I encountered Transformers as a kid, one of the FIRST things that popped into my mind was "What did they transform into BEFORE they came to Earth?" followed by "Shouldn't their robot modes look different?" and "What's with the cockpits?".

That these types of questions weren't properly addressed by Hasbro (and other licensees) from the very onset of creating a toy line/tv series/fiction, shows how shallow and ill-considered a lot of official "canonical" choices are.

True, but when a "continuity" is spawned purely by poorly conceived additions to the canon, it does undermine some of it's credibility.

But following that distinction, it could just as easily be said that BotCon publications represent only their OWN continuities, and therefore may be negligible in terms of what is considered "in continuity" for a TV series. In other words, just as we have multiple iterations of "G1", we also have distinct variations of Beast Wars continuity... which means Crumplemus Primal might be as removed from Mainframe's Beast Wars Primal, as War Within OP is from WFC Prime, is from IDW Prime, etc...  

Of course, multiple continuities in Transformers has become the norm, to the point that almost any variance can be explained away with a casual hand-wave, and fans have come to the point of weighing their own personal "fanon" as validly as "official" Hasbro edicts. Transformers is an interesting fiction, since more than most, the audience's own interpretation and interaction with the material functionally supersedes a lot of the sanctioned canon.

zmog

 

Not at all. All of Transformers takes place in a multiverse with over 15 quintillion different universes in it. All of it is canon, but barring greater multiversal entities, concepts, and events, things only affect whichever universe they take place in.

 

wow! thats some REAL help! thanks alot  

 

to anyone who really thinks that botcons "dawn of futures past" story line in canon, the comic described primal as a distinguished graduate of the Maximal Military Academy"

now in mainframes Beast wars cartoon, he was just a mere scientist that was a captain of a exploration vessel, not a military hero

 

huh... i didn't know that Botcon Kup was part of the Animated continuity. I always thought that they were bringing the concept of the elite guard to the mainstream universe. Granted I never have attended Botcon so I've no idea what the stories are until years later

 

Sure, why not? Being a military is not stooping him from being a scientist. Besides since when scientist get to command their own ships?

The fact he had been given a ship implies some sort of military rank, especiially since the Axalon was armed as well.

 

While that is possible, at this time its not the case.

The offical word is that the BW/m botcon stuff is part of the cartoon continuity.

And, whats your point???

Yes, the show described him as an explorer/scientist, but it never speaks about what he was in his youth.

He could have been a " distinguished graduate of the Maximal Military Academy" when he was younger.

 

Star Trek? Pretty sure all the captains were scientists or explorers.

 

Thats a gross misinterpretation.

Yes, some of the captains we saw in Trek were "dappled" in science , they were all graduates of Starfleets's COMMAND Division military program.

Only 2 Captains started out as actual scientist, Spock and Janeway.

All starfleet officers are explorers.

 

Didn't all the characters look different in the first episode, than they do according to their "toy-inspired" Botcon versions?

Official word or not, I think it's highly contentious. Official word can still be disagreed with, or called out for being bullshit.  

To follow my earlier point, nobody REALLY cares what is "official" in Transformers (except you maybe). 99% of fans still hold to their own "versions" and interpretations. Hasbro's official word is worth very little, IMHO.

I mean, just look at Takara's "official word" about the movie and animated continuities. Or Hasbro's recent decision to throw WFC and Prime in together.

zmog

 

And of course there's the obvious fact that Primal is the most heavily armed of all the Maximals. I mean, seriously anybody who watches the show can easily see he's military AND a scientist/explorer. There's no rule saying he can't be all.

And another thing to consider is that BW was an old show with a limited budget and resources, they couldn't depict the characters pre-Earth in very complex or detailed bodies since they all used the same one with their Earth-form heads. (the giant robot model from Reboot) That's why they were all in shadow at the beginning, to hide the fact that they didn't have proper pre-Earth forms.

I'll take DOFP bodies over the ones they got in-show anyday. Those at least look like Cybertronian Transformers.

 

So what was the point in asking us what was the previous form of Optimus Primal? He could have come up with some silly cybertronian vehicile form for himself.

At what point do we accept or refuse official stuff? Beast machines is awful to to me and clashed with BW and G1 on several level. Doesn´t make it less official.

 

A] all the characters were seen in shadow, the reason was to not give a "solid look" for any of them so that they can do what ever they line in a future story.

B] even if you can make out a difference, beast Wars introduced the ability to scan alt modes at will.

Which I'm famous for doing myself.....when things dont fit.

And I believe thats the key here.

So far I havent heard or found anything that says these cant fit.

I see what your saying.

And your right, most fans dont care.

But I always argue whats official, unless theres a solid contradiction.

I can see why some might say that BW clashed with BW due to characterization.

But how did BM clash with G1?

The way I see it, the only was refusing official word is when that word causes a major contradiction.