Reading IDW from the beginning I painful after you finish Furman's run, prepare for a long slog of horrible stories.

But Dreamwave did help show the demand for G1 fiction/toys as well as introducing some interesting concepts.

 

I'm re-reading so nothing I haven't read before. And like I said, I've enjoyed all the TF comics that I've ever bought, even AHM and the ongoing.

I think it really helped that for IDW I switched to trades, and avoided all the forum bitching here as those books progressed monthly.

 

well said!!! 

 

I think that's the fault of Saccarini......remember, according to him, we have a Defense Minister......

 

It showed the danger of ego (he claimed to have saved X Men, Batman, Fantastic Four when it was other artists), failing to give proper credit/ paying freelancers, etc

 

That's like saying the Harry Potter books suck because you've read the first novel or the Armada show sucks because you've seen the first 10 episodes.

The series gets MUCH better as it progresses.

 

The first arc was awful. However, the creative team changed for the second arc and the series got dramatically better from issue #6 through to the end of Energon. Discounting the Armada comic because of that first arc would be like discounting MTMTE because Heart of Darkness sucked.

 

Fine perhaps I'll try another Armada arc or tradeback. Perhaps I'll think of it more fondly.

 

So how is this robot art any different than the idw stuff?

Looks the same to me.

 

Really?
Broken perspective on cubic parts. Visible especially on the cab in vehicle mode. Body parts, that are supposedly made of metal, look like they were made of rubber and pumped with air. Even window frames are inflated.
There's no way Optimus's left tight could be connected to the body in this perspective.
Dull surprise. The only part of face reacting to everything is mouth open and it always looks the same no matter what characters are expressing.
Good thing only Devastator has mouth here.
Color depth on the background and on character is nearly the same. If not lineart, they'd blend together.

It certainly doesn't look the same.

 

Really? Man they rushed that Unicron ending (understandable due to editorial demands to rush in Energon) but that was terrible.

 

The problem with transforming on paper (the printed form) is it doesn't translate well.

It's much better in motion. One of my favorite (classic) shots is when Jazz and a Decepticon are fighting, the con throws Jazz in a judo flip, and Jazz transforms into a car, turns around, transforms again and tackles the 'con.

It just isn't as cool on a page.

 

I went to art school everything in that image isn't 100% correct if you get out a ruler and grid it all off, it's art.

When you round off the edges of boxes and characters they look rounded off you can't tell what a drawing on paper is made out of regardless of how well it's drawn unless you put text that says this is made out of metal.

All of those characters look puffy and inflated to because they are drawn with rounded edges and to look smooth it would look weird if you made every part of the Transformers perfectly squared off and hard edged.

 

Agreed to a limit. Example below on where "inflated/puffy" is too much:



As far as I remember DW's War Within did a great job having everyone transform, esp Shockwave, at least IMHO...

 

By this definition Pat lee and Rob Liefield don't do bad illustrations, they just do art. Ok.
I also went to art school. Even with comic books not being realistic medum, there's a treshold how much you can ignore things like perspective, and how far you can push it without doing it simply bad. Lee's style went too far and then was made into Drewamwave's house style. I never was impressed with DW graphics aside of coloring. Better artists like Figueroa managed to turn this style tollerable, but when Lee was at the helm it was abyssmal.

You can't have every line and every single detail rounded. Everyone ends looking, at best, like an oversized plastic toy instead of actual big robot.

 

As what? The janitor?

If you graduated as a student, you should know there's no limit to the amount of distortion you can use in your art as long as the idea you're trying to convey gets across. IF you're doing it for a reason. Remember Eischer?



You can't get any more "wrong" than that, but it's a masterpiece.

Lee's puffiness is a deliberate style, regardless of whether you enjoy it. The elongated neck thing is terrible, but is fudged so he can have the low angle shot and still see the face. I don't like it, either, but whatever. It's different than, say, EJ Su botching perspective multiple times per panel sometimes in the same figure, like the muzzle of a gun at a different perspective than the barrel of the same gun FOR NO REASON. Or a perfect side shot which does not exist in nature of a vehicle, as if looking at a blueprint rather than an object with mass FOR NO REASON. No story or stylistic purpose being served, just lack of experience. That kind of stuff is much more worth complaining about.

 

Only IF you are doing it for a reason and it works. Only then.

You are disgracing Eischer comparing Lee or Liefield to him, really.
Funny that you mentioned EJ Su, beacuse his distortions actually are serving the purpose of making shots more dynamit and cinematic. And cars still look like cars.

Throwing personal insults such as "janitor" doesn't really prove your point.
Because Lee's distortions aren't working for every reader. They don't convey the idea. This puffyness substracts from his illustrations. I don't feel like Lee's characters are heavy warmachines with weight, mass and substance. They look too toylike for my taste, there's little seriousness in them, stiff poses and, frankly, poor sequentials on his panels don't help either. You may like it, but it doesn't mean that everyone else must accept it.

Don't be passive-aggressive because not everyone loves your Dreamwave, or thinks that Dreamwave was really great.

 

I loved Dreamwave. It got me back into Transformers. The ongoing and MTMTE were brilliant. I felt the writers really grasped each character.

I definitely prefer Dreamwave's take on certain characters to IDW:

Prowl was patient and approachable not a prick.

Sunstreaker was a sociopathic badass not a wimp.

Thunderwing's profile hinted at his obsessiveness which drove the character in Matrix Quest not an empty super weapon.

Don't get me wrong I love Roberts' MTMTE.

I like how DW retained the classic G1 look unlike IDW who'll allow any generic looking robot be a Cybertronian like the movies have. I hate that Rattrap is in RID.

But anyway, on a lighter note I loved and missed Dreamwave. It's a pity they were so good, I wouldn't have gotten back collecting and wasted so much money in the last decade.

 

Yes, I hate Prowl's IDW characterisation too... but sorry, definitely can't agree with loving Roberts' MTMTE... I have A LOT of problems with that series.

 

Can't say that I really hate it, but I do feel disconnected from IDW Prowl. I can get that he's cold and calculating, but he loses his nerves far too often and comes as choleric.
Plus... Of all iconic Autobots Prowl really doesn't work being that morally corrupt.

I like MTME, but I think it should be balanced in IDW output by having also an Earth-centric series. As much as I like space opera things in TFverse, this franchise started with robots hiding on Earth in Earth vehicle modes.
And it's not like human-TF interactions or human characters have no place in TFverse. I'd like to see more "disguise" put into the "robots in disguise".