What constitutes a repaint and a remold/retool

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by tigatron2002, Aug 31, 2016.

  1. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Wrecker

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    I'm starting this thread due to a discussion over in the uw computron thread. I'd like to discuss what everyone thinks of these terms and what they mean. I grew up in the bw days so my pov may be a bit outdated but I'll try to give examples of figures to show my pov on the subject.

    Repaint-a second (sometimes more) use of a mold with no changes other than plastic color/paint

    Examples-Starscream/Skywarp/thundercracker, Cheetor/tigatron

    Retool/remold-a figure made from an existing mold with minimal changes to parts including but not limited to heads and weapons (yes I consider these as part of the same "mold/tooling" as the body of the figure)

    Examples-Starscream/dirge/ramjet/thrust, bw wolfang/k-9, transmetal Cheetor/ravage, various combiner wars head swaps, t30 springer/sandstorm

    The amount of tooling/molding changes does not matter to me, unless the figure is exactly the same other than colors it cannot be classified as a repaint in my opinion.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Smashs

    Smashs Internet: Pure Truth Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

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    I think you covered it.

    Repaint = MP Seekers
    Remold/Retool = CW Onslaught/Hot Spot
     
  3. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Wrecker

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    Then why do people consider head swaps to be repaints and not retools? I don't understand, but I also come from a time where we didn't really get retools, only repaints
     
  4. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    I agree, mostly. However, HasTak's current practices throw a wrench those traditional distinctions. We're now seeing cases where a mold contains multiple toolings from the start. Remold/retool previously designated that a copy of the original mold was altered to create the new one--hence "re-mold" and "re-tool"--and that doesn't apply anymore. What would previously have been a retool could now be considered a repaint that uses alternate parts from an unchanged mold. So that's one reason you're seeing head-swaps being called "repaints" now.

    In other cases, it's just people being lazy with their terminology :p 
     
  5. Smitty.1981

    Smitty.1981 Rusting...

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    That is why I coined the term pre-tool.
     
  6. Grimlock_13

    Grimlock_13 Rattrap Teabag

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    Exact same toy with a different set of paint: Repaint.

    Is there different parts to the toy (even if that's just the head that's different): Retool.

    People can argue "Pretools" or who the mold was "intended" to be first all they want, but the above is the most basic core of the concept.
     
  7. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Wrecker

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    I think pretool, is an acceptable term. I can't consider a head swap to be a mere repaint simply because that alternate head wasn't released with the original release of the figure.

    Then to further elaborate on two more distinctions there is

    Shared engineering-figures that share a transformation but don't share any actual parts

    Examples-g2 smokescreen/energon Starscream, cw deadend/tr chromedome

    And shared parts: figures that share non essential parts but otherwise have nothing in common, a fairly new practice

    Examples-tr Blurr/tr chromedome, tr scourge/tr highbrow
     
  8. Mr. Chaos

    Mr. Chaos Head of Illuminati Chapter 517

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    To get a bit more clinical...

    Repaint 1.0- A literal repainting of the figure. No physical changes at all and transformation is the exact same... just a straight recoloring of the figure. (Example- FOC Starscream to FOC Skywarp)

    Repaint 1.5 Ver A- The same as above but the weapon is changed

    Repaint 1.5 Ver B- Same as 1.0 but with a new head (Example: Generations Blitzwing and Doubledealer)

    Repaint 2.0- A merging of 1.5 Ver A and Ver B. A figure with a new head and weapon but the body remains the same.

    Repaint 3.0- A 2.0 but now the transformation is done differently to alter the look, such as legs being rotated differently. (Example: TR Sentinel Prime and Astrotrain and their feet)

    Retool 1.0- Repaint 1.5 or 2.0 with small cosmetic changes (new details) but the transformation and silhouette remain the same. (Example: Combiner Wars Optimus and Motormaster)

    Retool 2.0- A 1.0 but now the transformation is done differently to alter the silhouette. (Example: CW Hot Spot and Onslaught)

    Retool 3.0- Basic engineering remains (similar transformation) but completely new shell/form. Can be seen as a New Mold that takes inspiration for an earlier mold

    Prepaint or Pretool- A figure that comes out first before the original intention of the mold is sold. See TR Megatron and TR Blitzwing

    Upscale- A smaller figure's design is enlarged but the design and transformation remain the same. a 'simply bigger small character' toy.
     
  9. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    I think the fandom has coined this as "extensive retooling". Another case is Generations Metroplex/TR Fortress Maximus
     
  10. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    There's also the rare case where the basic engineering is the same but the toy is entirely new...going beyond just a new shell. G2 Smokescreeen and Energon Starscream being the main case in point. Another could be argued for the upscaling of Cyberverse figures to voyager sizes, like the late Beast Hunters and the Brazillian Cyberforce toys.
     
  11. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Wrecker

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    That's the thing though, to me at least you can't split the head from a body and call it a repaint that way. When we started getting head swaps more often they were regularly called remolds because the figure had new molding. I think breaking it down like you have makes it way too complicated for the sake of being complicated.
     
  12. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    It may not have been released with the original, but it was still produced and manufactured with it. All those extra heads were actually made, and then put in the trash or recycled. HasTak should really consider selling them online for the kitbashers.
     
  13. Mr. Chaos

    Mr. Chaos Head of Illuminati Chapter 517

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    Here is why, to me, a head swap is not a retool: 90% of the figure has remained the same. The only thing that has changed is the face and that is something any fan could do in seconds with most figures. A head is no different than a weapon: it is something that can be changed in seconds, very cheaply, that alters very little.

    A retool/remold changes much more. THe body is altered, the arms and legs change, it isn't a mere swap but deep modifications done during the molding process.
     
  14. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Wrecker

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    The heads may have been molded, but did you get that head when you bought the figure? For all intents and purposes this scenario is still a retool/remold. You are not buying the exact same figure twice, something is different

    And if a retool/remold has to be something more than a mere head swap why on earth did we call head swaps remolds 10 years ago during the unicron trilogy era and universe 2.0?
     
  15. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    That's when you say "slight retool" or "extensive retool". Easy-peasy.
     
  16. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Wrecker

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    This exactly
     
  17. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

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    If you want to get technically clear on it, none of you used the term repaint correctly, even though many of you defined it correctly.

    Repaint is when they only change the paints used on the figure. There are many repaints over the years in Transformers, from the "Allspark" series of movie figures to MP Laserbeak and Buzzsaw. Many Legends/Spy Changers got repaints, where the only changes were the paint applications.

    The term most of you incorrectly use as Repaint is actually a Redeco.

    Redeco is when the mold is the same, but the colors used are different. This goes beyond the paint into the plastic colors used in the injection process. Most of what you call repaints are Redecos.

    The Seekers, the many, many uses of Bruticus over the years, every re-released G2 figure, every black version, etc. They are all Redecos.

    Retools, regardless of the changes, are still changes to the tooling, so they all count as such.

    Classics Starscream, Skywarp, and Ramjet, are not three uses of the same mold and in fact, all three are their own molds. Skywarp is a more minor retool and redeco of Starscream, Ramjet is a more substantial retooling of the mold.
     

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