What are things about MTMTE that you don't like?

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by kaijuguy19, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. Urluck

    Urluck unimportant

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    I have to say, I'm not agreeing with you here. There's plenty of legitimate reasons to take issue with MTMTE, but I'm not seeing a single instance of the term "mansplaining" to be one them. Especially when its in the context of a scene where characters are explicitly getting human culture wrong, in the service of comedy. I don't see it as some kind of "take that" against some parts of the fandom. #43 is, if anything, an acknowledgement of the fandom, not a critique. Should it have been a whole issue? Perhaps not, but I'm having a hard time understanding your mindset.


    Is there perhaps another problem you are having with MTMTE that's making you sensitive to "mansplaining"? Or further supporting evidence of your position?
     
  2. Friendross

    Friendross Well-Known Member

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    im really annoyed by tailgates spark mutation


    lame.. i wish we could get a story without mcguffen central
     
  3. agp

    agp Well-Known Member

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    Catching up on this thread made me think of my biggest dislike. This book is way too much tell and not enough show. The really irritating part is a lot of the tell isn't even in the books, people are going to twitter. It seems like every other issue this is happening.

    The getaway imprisonment was a perfect example. We went back and forth about it until Roberts explained the why. It was never shown that LL has harsh punishments and all other transgressions were exceptions to the rule. You can't blame the readers for wondering why he was locked up in the manner he was. When something that simple requires a multi paragraph explanation, the scene and to some extent the plotline is a failure.

    The answers should be in the story and clear. Look back to your high school english class and the classics we read. You were being taught how to identify the why within in the story and not guess until you read some authors note. We were taught reading comprehension.
     
  4. GoLion

    GoLion Sé que me estás robando

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    Fine, fine. Maybe I misread the situation. Just including the word felt forced to me, and it came across as pushing an agenda. If I'm the only one seeing it, though; I don't have a problem rethinking my position.

    I will say, though, that people can influence others through social media or other means as a way to "exert control" over others (shaming tactics, cry bullying, etc). I think that's a form of totalitarian pressure. Granted, it's not official, but there are ramifications for some if they don't buy into one person's way of thinking over another (but that's goes into my whole having issue with the *** movement).

    Smog, we're going to have to disagree with what makes a bad person. I think people with bad opinions are ignorant, misinformed, or just plain stubborn. I only use the qualifier of "bad person" for those that commit a bad act. Assault, murder, robbbery... It's like you told me about applying masks to our enemies so it can be easier to hate them. I have to try to see the best in people despite their words. It's when those words turn into actions that impact others that it becomes an issue of someone being a bad person. For me at least.

    Oh, and Urluck, I have no issue with the word itself. It just felt forced in the comic. I guess I misunderstood the intent of the inclusion of the word.

    Also, I really have to thank all of you. I may not agree with some of you, but I feel like I learn from interacting with you. I also think, for the most part, we agree on real world issues that are problematic. The civility here really is a breath of fresh air compared to other places on the net. I hope that you all realize that if I write something you have an issue with that I am always willing to change my position if proper evidence is supplied.
     
  5. jcblazer

    jcblazer Well-Known Member

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    I was late to the party, and just finished Dark Cybertron. Not much to complain about, as this is one of the best ongoing series I have read. The notion that an apparent death means very little would be one. It's enevitable that a major player will not remain gone forever, but for a character to apparently die, only to bring that character back a few issues later cheapens the emotional impact, in my opinion. With so many characters in the Transformers Universe, development of a lesser known character could be utilized. Marvel handled the death of Betty Ross well. She remained dead for about 10 years, and brought back with a major twist that added to her impact on the books she was in.
    The DJD being so powerful, they can take down seemingly anyone is a minor gripe on my part. Best new group in a while, but I do not see how they can be major characters if they curb stomp everyone who crosses their pass. This does not make for an interesting story long term. However, the book is so well written, these are not reasons to give up on the book altogether.
    For the people who say that they once loved the book, but have now given up on it, ebb and flow are what comics are. It is very difficult to maintain a level of excellence year after year. Changes and plot twists are enevitable. Not everyone will like them. I have given up on a book, myself in the past, only to have come back and found that said book once again became amazing in my absence. It's almost like a relationship, with highs and lows. With the really good ones, you stick through the dry spells. I hope to see this book endure for a long time and intend to be on board through its duration. Minor gripes be damed.
     
  6. Pinpoint

    Pinpoint Banned

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    It's got a pretty jarring plot. Sometimes I can't really tell what's going on, or what happened in the last issue.
     
  7. optimusmegas

    optimusmegas Soleron

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    sunder.....



    seriously i thought nickel was the stupidest wannabe thing to appear in this comic....lord was i wrong.

    i hope we never see this dope ever again.
     
  8. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    That I can agree with.

    Everything should be freaking clear in the book.
     
  9. GoLion

    GoLion Sé que me estás robando

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    Aw... Am I alone in my love of Nickel? Come on she's a totally cool character!
     
  10. Thelonicon

    Thelonicon Well-Known Member

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    Nope, which is why I had Sakamoto sketch this at Botcon last year.
    [​IMG]
     
  11. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Oh, I agree it was forced. I just don't think it's a big deal.

    I think that 'totalitarian' is totally the wrong word for that. Plus, I think the power and actual oppressive influence of ***s is greatly overrated. It's a bogeyman that enables us to drum up righteous indignation in disproportion to our needs. I think that goes for certain websites recently discussed as well. I don't think that's "bullying" at all. I think that's a somewhat inflated term that feeds a siege mentality. Do you really feel 'besieged'?

    It just bugs me that these days the response to the grievances of others (particularly coming from the left side of things, justified or not) is simply to get defensively hyper-aggrieved, in order to claim to be the offended parties first.

    Nah... I've met plenty of people who I just think are 'bad' people. Some people are just dicks, unfortunately. Everyone thinks they have a reason, of course. Everyone is the hero of their own narrative.

    I like trying to -understand- where people are coming from, especially if I respect their attitude, if not their beliefs. But there are a lot of people out there that really deserve no respect from me. That's tough talk, of course. I'm generally pretty civil, but that doesn't mean I don't judge people. We gotta make a call sometimes, right? :) 

    Well said. :thumb 

    zmog
     
  12. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    Oh, God yes. I don't think I've ever seen the mentality of the people that use "***" so well.
     
  13. Focksbot

    Focksbot Skeleton Detective

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    Wait - who *isn't* trying to exert some form of control through social media, or through social interaction in general? Life and culture is all about influencing one another. Ideas about morality are constantly fought over and used to judge one another.

    The '***' movement, as far as I can see, is just a form of vocal resistance to mainstream ideas about morality. As I've said before, I don't agree with everything said within that movement, and anything big enough to be a 'movement' will contain individuals who just like behaving sanctimoniously, and others who crave attention, but the movement is no more innately 'totalitarian', authoritarian or moralising than any other push for social change.
     
  14. optimusmegas

    optimusmegas Soleron

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    I doubt you are....everyone apparently loves out of place chibi characters.

    Glad you think she cool though....

    Personally I think giving the DJD a nanny/mascot is stupid but to each their own.

    Take solace in the fact I think sunder is much much worse.
     
  15. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    To be clear, I've run afoul of the '***' attitude here and there in my time. I don't always agree with the specific claims or attitudes of these people even if I share their broad political leaning.

    Most of them are pretty young, and either not well-informed, or too well-informed, but only from one direction. Add some adolescent idealism and fervour on top, and you've got a volatile mix. Honestly, I'm almost tolerant of that, because at that age, maybe we need a little idealistic fervour. It's the people are old enough to know better that I find really tedious.

    In fact, I might argue that my dear little brother was an 'obnoxious ***' before that term was hip. Fortunately, he has since grown up a bit, and now he's just obnoxious. :wink: 

    BUT... I also want to stress that the number of times I've actually run into that kind of attitude is absolutely insignificant when compared to the sheer number of people I see online all the time who are for some reason incredibly aggrieved about ***s, as if they are constantly being attacked by them, and who are using that strawman to try to deflate 'liberal myths' or whatever.

    I think that '***' (and all the associated counter-rhetorics) are raised up practically ANY time anybody makes a critique of social norms from a 'progressive' point of view... which is messed up.

    AGREE. :thumb 

    I think Nickel is fine... but I think she needs to be treated as more than just an easy gag as well. We'll see if she actually fulfills that need... she's only appeared once ever in the fiction, so it's early.

    I don't mind seeing behind the curtain and seeing that the DJD don't have their "game faces" on ALL the time. Honestly, that didn't bother me. I still think they're scary psychopaths. :) 

    Sunder could have worked. He could have been a great villain in fact... but I think he was tossed out as a 'monster-of-the-week' in a story that really didn't develop as sense of his character or of any serious mood... so he kind of ended up as a wet biscuit... and even sort of a grimdark self-parody.

    "Wet biscuit"? Did I just make that up? Do people even say that? :confused: 

    zmog
     
  16. Blitz Wing

    Blitz Wing Triple Threat

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    *Slow Clap* Very well said, I've noticed this type of attitude popping up more and more on this site, on social media and in the real world. It is a touchy subject that I try to avoid, but it seems to me that there are more and more people out there that seem to get offended by anyone who gets offended by any form of persecution (real or otherwise).
     
  17. agp

    agp Well-Known Member

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    It appears GoLion is the USA. You guys need to understand that what is happening here, specifically on university campuses, can be quite different from your countries. His feelings about *** are most likely shaped from completely different circumstances. If you would like more information please feel to pm me and I would be happy to share. I don't think thread is the place for it.

    I used to follow Roberts on twitter, I don't know English politics, but he would appear to be what Americans would call a leftist. We need to remember some of that is going to bleed through to his stories. I don't think the mansplaining thing was necessarily a dig, just him using a popular word with his side of the political spectrum.

    All that being said I don't think we're going to get anywhere good praising or criticizing things in his work that in someway reflect real world politics.
     
  18. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Love it. :lol 
     
  19. GoLion

    GoLion Sé que me estás robando

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    My favorite attitude of the modern *** is that people are all social classes based on things they can't control. I also love being told i'm a marganizeled person because I'm hispanic. I'm not margarnalized by anyone. I'm related to lawyers, doctors and even a rocket scientist. We're all hispanic. We had goals and we worked towards them. Not a one of us was oppressed by 'cis gender white men'.

    Which is what makes it all the more horrible that it happens. These young people have barely entered society and they already have this terrible opinion of it. They've not really interacted with any people, but they have it figured out because they live on tumblr and claim feminism when they have no idea what the term really means.

    I'd be willing to bet he's lived in society a bit and realized that it's not truly as bad as some want to make it out to be. Yes, there are issues that still need to be addressed, but compare society to the way it was 30 years ago when marital rape was still legal. We've come a long way since then.


    Then you're lucky. Just yesterday I was called a "horrible sexist" because I didn't think 'Deadpool was a terrible example of sexist attitudes of the patriarchy that is so pervasive in western societies'.



    I can't speak for others, but I've also run afoul of people who have compared me to a rapist because I laughed at a somewhat sexually uncouth joke. I have to punch on the fact that there are levels. People who say stupid things aren't worth the same ire of people that do bad things. Go look at what some students did at Rutgers for an example of a totalitarian attitude towards opposing opinions (Not that I agree with Milo, I think he has some pretty disastrous opinions, actually).

    I'm not against calling people out when they're being horrible. I'm against calling people out for possibly not having the same standard of what should or should not be socially acceptable.

    The person that applies the same ire to a rapist as they would someone who says a rape joke is not doing anything for anyone. If anything they're doing the opposite because it turns a potentially educational moment into a confrontational one. Which isn't going to get anyone to truly change their ways, and getting people to change is my top priority when I do call them on their nonsense.

    With all that said, I can only speak from my personal experiences, and it truly is subjective and down to the individual. I grew up in the hood, and I'm only truly offended by true acts of violence. I'm not offended by a violent video game, or a stupid joke, even a slightly homophobic/sexist joke. I might not agree with the people that say those things, but I think it's plain stupid to get all riled up by their words. Now, what I might do, in a civil manner of course, is try to explain to them why what they're saying is inappropriate and might hurt certain people (I've done this with varying degrees of success).

    I'm not against social change, if anything, I think we need some. I'm against a contentious attitude being the spark for the change. It's not going to work, if anything it will cause the direct opposite. I think the reason we've seen such a rise of imbecile MRA types is because socially we've had such angry *** types that give NO leeway for context or severity of what is being said.

    The worst part is when someone goes up to one of these ideologues and says something like ' I agree to a point, but...' the response is usually just to say 'you're just as bad as the guy that rapes women' or even worse 'kill yourself'. There is never room for compromise on anything.

    Another bad part of all of this is that I know men that claim feminism when they're around women, or when they're in circles of people that claim it, but when they're alone? They're horrible people, they say terrible things, and don't feel remorseful for their terrible hate speech. All that's changed is that this stuff isn't said as freely as it once was, it's like how some white people claim to not be racist because they don't use the N-word. They're still hugely racist, but think they're ok because they don't go around using terrible words. Again, has anything been fixed? Not at all.

    The only way we will have societal change is when we stop vilifying people and we start explaining, in a civil manner, why their words are hurtful.

    Look, this is the last thing I'll say about this. If we're painting with a broad brush I typically agree with 99% of everything progressives and ***s say. It's their terrible methods of shaming and exclusion that bother me. That attitude will not change a damn thing, if anything, it's going to cause more strafe and anger for people to become even more extreme with their insane views.

    Here's a little quote that Emma Watson (quoting Feminism is for everybody) gave in a discussion she had with Bell Hooks (A woman I love, btw).
    Emma Watson and bell hooks Talk Feminism, Confidence and the Importance of Reading

    Watson: "Yes, yes. In Feminism is for Everybody, I found a reminder of just what you were saying, "To critique sexist images without offering alternatives is an incomplete intervention. Critique in and of itself does not lead to change."

    So yea, my problem with certain pages on the net is that it's nothing but critiquing ( bullying) without offering an alternative. That attitude is not going to change anyone of their terrible ideas. We have to take a long hard look at what causes bad attitudes (through discussion) and find a meaningful way to change those attitudes. Just making fun of someone for an opposing opinion (even if bigoted) isn't going to cause them to change their attitude out of "fear",at best, it will cause the barest of glad handing. That's not real change.

    Oh, and what I love about the latest posting on that page is that there is no rebuttal, just more of the same bullying. It's almost if someone is incapable of giving an adequate response to my claims. Shock.
     
  20. Focksbot

    Focksbot Skeleton Detective

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    I can understand that. I do see where you're coming from. There are only fine degrees between our points of view.

    To an extent, I definitely agree that shaming backs people into a corner, entrenches their views. *However*, I also think that the rise of MRA types is always going to happen when the threat of sweeping social change becomes real/hard to ignore, however politely or nicely the reformers behave. I think there really is something in the 'boys won't share their toys' criticism, and sometimes it's very insidious - I think there are a lot of poorly thought out, somewhat disingenuous views touted that try to establish themselves as a reasonable objection to 'aggressive' *** tactics, but are really just bad excuses for lazy opposition.

    And it's human nature to react badly to any suggestion that you might change for the better. People hate being told to live healthier lifestyles by their doctors, and they hate even more being told their actions might be 'part of the problem' when it comes to social inequality, however delicately it's put.

    Yep, there's definitely a problem that it drives it underground, so to speak, that it becomes about manners more than genuine change of heart. But I would suggest that if these unrepentant horrible people are only reining in their behaviour in company - well, that's still a lot better than them not reining it in at all. And what are the chances of really changing the way they feel? Some stuff is gathered pretty deep inside of us. When I think of the little things I do and think that I know very well are damaging - to me, perhaps, as well as to people around me - and how hard I find it to just *stop* once and for all, I feel like the speed of social change is actually really impressive.

    I agree about offering an alternative. But I also think there are plenty of dyed-in-the-wool ***s who are well alive to that and on the case.
     

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