We will kill them all! vs Freedom is the right of all sentient beings

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Thundersmacker, Jul 8, 2011.

?

Which one-liner characterizes Optimus Prime the most optimal.

  1. We will kill them all!

    27 vote(s)
    17.0%
  2. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.

    52 vote(s)
    32.7%
  3. Both

    58 vote(s)
    36.5%
  4. Optimus Prime is inferior, All Hail Megatron!

    22 vote(s)
    13.8%
  1. griffon2k

    griffon2k Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Posts:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Likes:
    +0
    Grimlock has no sense of diplomacy, no need of compassion, and looks for a fight wherever he can find one. He's always been that way. That's what Optimus was speaking to in that quote.

    Grimlock would never appeal to Megatron or Sentinel Prime's better nature, he'd go right for their optics. Movie Optimus pleaded for both to change their ways, repeatedly.

    There is no reason why Optimus Prime should entertain a truce with enemies who want such a truce to include the enslavement of another race, or talk diplomacy with an age old Decepticon while he's in the process of sucking their sun dry. That's not heroic, it's being willfully ignorant of the consequences of your own inaction, and after thousands of years of doing that on Cybertron and watching it become a lifeless husk, Optimus Prime wasn't willing to let it happen to someone else home.

    This "Movie Optimus is a mass murderer" meme is ridiculous.
     
  2. Eric

    Eric VOTE.

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Posts:
    26,378
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +2,976
    I prefer "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."
     
  3. Soca Taliban

    Soca Taliban Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Posts:
    182
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +3
    ^^^^
    This...
     
  4. Honorbound

    Honorbound Taking a break.

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Posts:
    3,744
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +4,173
    Ebay:
    Boxerperson's wisdom abounds again. As he put it, the two are not mutually exclusive.

    I've come to believe that other Optimuses don't value innocent life as much as they claim:
    The ultimate indicator of how much you value innocent life is your willingness to ensure that no one can threaten it. By allowing the Decepticons to retreat and try again, Optimus is a party to their atrocities. If he had killed them, then they wouldn't be killing anyone else.

    Here's my version of the logic chain others have posted:
    1. "Freedom (including the freedom to live) are the right of all innocent beings."
    2. The Decepticons threaten these rights, and will never stop threatening them.
    3. "We will kill them all."
    4. The Decepticons aren't threatening freedom anymore. Problem solved.

    The "We will kill them all." line isn't contradicting "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings," it is a reaction to anyone who messes with the freedom of others.

    Edit: Griffon2k is right as well: everything you do is an action, even deciding on inaction. So when Optimus decides to show the Decepticons mercy, he is as guilty of the innocent deaths as they are, because he could have stopped it by killing them, and he chose not to. His hands are as bloody as theirs: he is just like them, which is ironic, considering that people accuse the problem-solving Optimus of being just like the Decepticons. No wonder the Great Wars last for millions of years in other continuities.
     
  5. WarDrums

    WarDrums Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Posts:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +0
    No they don't! In the Burton films, Batman is a murderer. In the Nolan movies, he has principles.
     
  6. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    Posts:
    83,294
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    462
    Likes:
    +2,907
    Optimus Prime should be Freedom is the right of all sentient beings but must shoot to kill when provoked to save friends, comrades, allies or the innocent.

    Bayformer Prime is more ruthless than Governor Straxus. MERCY WILL NOT BE DISPENSED HERE!!!!!
    '

    But Bayformer Prime is realistic, i guess he sees that the Decepticons aren't capable of good.
     
  7. Grand Sword

    Grand Sword Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Posts:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Likes:
    +0
    Bayverse are war movies, and Prime is the Autobots' commander. He will kill the enemy to ensure innocents are saved and so the war can end. He knew the Decpeticons would return but when they did with the betrayl of his mentor who murders (assumably) his best friend and then tries to take over Earth after attempting to kill him and all his troops in the shuttle.... well Prime was going to end this war with extreme predjudice. The Cons had taken their plan to the nth degree and the only way Prime can stop them once and for all is to kill them all...

    So what about.. "One shall stand, one shall fall" ... that's a famous Optimus quote also and that's basically what Kill them all is...
     
  8. Starscreamownz

    Starscreamownz Air Commander

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Posts:
    3,800
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +12
    Freedom is the right of anyone who isn't a crazy decepticon.
     
  9. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Posts:
    6,914
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    California
    Likes:
    +66
    Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, until they violate that same right being granted to others, then we will kill them all.
     
  10. Sideways77

    Sideways77 #1 flareup simp

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Posts:
    18,355
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Location:
    Oregon
    Likes:
    +9,127
    Screw Prime. All hail Megatron!
     
  11. Bountyan

    Bountyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Posts:
    17,243
    News Credits:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Likes:
    +3,299
    Freedom to kill them all is the right of all sentient beings.
     
  12. Torque

    Torque The WORDSMITH

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Posts:
    11,555
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +336
    "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings. But once you try to rob millions of that freedom, be it through death or enslavement of another species, then you forfeit that right."

    THAT is how I justify what Optimus Prime did
     
  13. kamuix

    kamuix weeeeee

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Posts:
    867
    Trophy Points:
    146
    Likes:
    +0
    but but sir, i'm not optimus prime...
     
  14. fabexmax

    fabexmax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2006
    Posts:
    3,412
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +54
    "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, and any who oppose this, we will kill them all!"
    ~Bayverse Optimus Prime
     
  15. uruseiranma

    uruseiranma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Posts:
    2,485
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +418
    "He was a Bot of Freedom...Until they pushed him...TOO!! FAAAAAARRRRR!!"
     
  16. LesterX

    LesterX Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Posts:
    1,129
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +5
    All Hail Megatron!
     
  17. Rikerwota

    Rikerwota Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Posts:
    621
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Likes:
    +49
    I've been searching for a line from Terry Pratchett's novel 'The Fifth Elephant' but I don't have the book any more...so I will paraphrase.

    The good guy (Sam Vimes) kills the bad guy (Wolfgang) and runs through a list of snappy one-liners that he could say in that situation...he realises though, that if he does, it would make him nothing more than a murderer.

    Yes, sometimes the job needs to be done - but what is more important is how you do it.
     
  18. nametaken

    nametaken Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Posts:
    1,290
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +4
    freedom is the right of all sentient beings that agree with me.

    more accurate OP line.
     
  19. Saberfrost01

    Saberfrost01 元ロボ ダイユーシャ

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Posts:
    3,328
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +10
    Once I may have choosen Prime but times change. I've preferred Decepticons for well over a year now.
    ALL HAIL MEGATRON!!!!
     
  20. cnic

    cnic Decepticon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Posts:
    1,257
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +2
    My take is that movieverse Prime has been pushed too far and has grown fond of the human race therefore making him take whatever steps neccessary to ensure that the human race is ok.