Was Sentinel Prime Lying to Optimus?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by BluRayHiDef, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. BluRayHiDef

    BluRayHiDef Well-Known Member

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    During the scene when Sentinel and Optimus are conversing with one another in that desert area, Sentinel makes a few statements concerning Optimus. Did he mean what he said or was it all part of his deception? Here is what he says to Optimus:

    • Never mourn the past young warrior. Thanks to you, our race survives.
    • In a world I do not know, I am no longer your teacher Optimus; you are mine.

    On another note, I love this scene. It's so touching and is one of the rear opportunities we get to see some good dialogue between the bots.
     
  2. Bountyan

    Bountyan Well-Known Member

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    Probably. If he was going to work with Megs I don't see how Optimus made their race survive. If anything, Optimus lessened their chances of surviving as a race, because he stopped that energon harvester thus killing most of the hatchlings that needed energon. And if Megatron took over in the first movie he could have used the Allspark to make a bunch of new Transformers. Didn't help that he murdered a bunch of his species too. Unless Sentinel means the "Autobot" race (?)

    And I don't think a student would truthfully say "YOU ARE MY TEACHER" and then a second later betray the teacher and go against all of the teacher's beliefs.
     
  3. BluRayHiDef

    BluRayHiDef Well-Known Member

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    Damn. That just makes Sentinel seem all the more evil.
     
  4. Meggamus

    Meggamus I want FOC figures!!

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    He was lying cos during thir final battle, sentinel said that he would never have given optimus the matrix cos he couldn't make the hard decisions
    Cos in the desert he gave optimus the matrix cos he said he deserved it so he was lying
     
  5. BluRayHiDef

    BluRayHiDef Well-Known Member

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    Sentinel never said anything about the Matrix during the fight on the bridge. What are you talking about?
     
  6. Meggamus

    Meggamus I want FOC figures!!

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    Oh Ye your right :eek: 
    I was 99% sre he mentioned something bout the matrix in the final battle
    Hehehe oh well :banghead: 
     
  7. rook

    rook Well-Known Member

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    Retreading Sentinel: "...But you could never make the hard decisions." - Deciding to side with his mentor by betraying the humans or killing his mentor and protecting the humans.

    When he says, "I am no longer your teacher Optimus, you are mine", he's probably referring to what has Optimus learned by dealing with the humans, are they worth protecting, and if not, how far have the Autobots fallen away from their loyalty to Cybertron to be serving under such pathetic creatures?

    ...
     
  8. jaws

    jaws Well-Known Member

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    Lying
     
  9. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Perhaps at that point in the film Sentinel still thought that Optimus would see his logic of saving Cybertron and the species at any cost. Somehow the whole thing about Optimus Prime dooming the entire species in the first film has kind of been forgotten.

    It's really only the scene in Washington where Sentinel and Optimus see how different their philosophy really is. Sentinel is willing to do anything it takes to save Cybertron and his species even if it means making a deal with the devil and exploiting another species. Prime only cares about winning at any cost and seems to have no desire at all to find some way to rebuild Cybertron into a thriving world again.

    Although if rebuild Cybertron only required the use of some slave labor you kind of have to wonder why the All Spark and Sun Harvester were so important if Cybertron can be rebuilt as the Transformers home without them.
     
  10. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    Well, you have to remember they needed SIX BILLION WORKERS to take all of Earth's resources, THEN take the resources to Cybertron and use them.

    It's not exactly easy to do that [you know, conquer the whole damn planet], and it would take QUITE a while to be done, something along ten or twenty years depending on the amount of damage made to Cybertron, while The Harvester and The AllSpark would fix things with a flick of their wrists.

    Plus, the distance between Earth and Cybertron would [in normal circumstances] make this slavery-thing absolutely unconceivable, which is why The Pillars were so important for the 'Cons in the first place.

    On the desert scene we have to explanations: One, Sentinel was lying to earn his trust, Two, it's part of Sentinel's complex morality: He still admired Optimus as a better man than him [that is, until Chicago, where Sentinel lost his shit once and for all] and agreed that Optimus was really worhty of the Matrix [alternatively, he didn't think of HIMSELF as being worthy of the Matrix, given the deal with the devil he was about to make and the slavery thing, it would fit with his sadness when he says "Forgive me"].
     
  11. BluRayHiDef

    BluRayHiDef Well-Known Member

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    That's just not true at all. It's just that Prime doesn't want Cybertron rebuilt at the expense of Humanity's freedom.
     
  12. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    I still say bullsh*t.

    Never once do we hear "Come on Autobots lets find a way to fix Cybertron without destroy the Earth."

    Or even plans to bring it back. Hell i'm sure the Autobots love to murder the weakling Decepticons and with tortourous deaths that make Freddy Kreuger and Jigsaw proud.

    It's very clear. Optimus Prime is a ****head. And Sentinel Prime and Megatron are partially right for the wrong reasons.
     
  13. thebruteslayer

    thebruteslayer Banned

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    [​IMG]



    This pretty much sums it up.
     
  14. BluRayHiDef

    BluRayHiDef Well-Known Member

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    Oh, stop it. The reason Optimus doesn't suggest to the Autobots that they find some way to rebuild Cybertron is because there is no way of doing so without expending Humanity. The only ways are to use the ALLSpark or the Sun Harvester, but those were both destroyed (necessarily in order to stop the Decepticons).
     
  15. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    :lolol . Brillaint. I love this.

    I know but still. Prime's pre-occupation on Decepticon ass kicking has made Cybertron dissapear forever and they don't about that. Their stuck on a planet full of people like Sam Wiggitywhack.

    I am amazed how their not even trying to fix their race. I wish he actually saw Cybertron for real in DOTM.
     
  16. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    It seems like if Prime had even the least desire to rebuild Cybertron or save the species he would have said something to Sentinel about how he also wanted to save Cybertron but not at the price of humanity. That's always a good hero line of wanting something but not at any cost.

    Or in the first film Prime seems just a little too eager to doom his species with the destruction of the All Spark and then leave the rest of the Autobots and the humans to deal with Megatron. Not exactly a hero thing to say I'll win at any cost even if I have to damn my whole species to do it. Heroes usually do whatever it takes to keep the bad guys from getting something while at the same time protecting their species.

    You wouldn't call it very heroic if Batman put all the good people on space ships and then blew up the Earth just to stop his rouge's gallery.
     
  17. BluRayHiDef

    BluRayHiDef Well-Known Member

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    Quite frankly, preserving Humanity's right to freedom is more important to him than anything else, including Cybertron.
     
  18. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Sentinel seemed to honestly think Prime would come around to his way of thinking. He probably meant those things he said completely, though not in the way many in the thread may think.

    Sentinel's major motivation was to his race, he probably was supremely thankful that Optimus had managed to preserve the Autobot faction after his... deactivation, if only to give it a chance to restore itself now at the expense of earth and it's people. Sentinel was willing to make deals with his greatest enemies, all for the chance at restoring Cybertron, so that seems to indicate he was willing to put the past aside.

    As for the "you are my teacher" line, it's entirely possible he meant that too. There was a lot Sentinel needed to know about earth, both to put his plan into play and to make sure it would work once it was in motion. He would need to know how humans thought, how human physiology and society worked in order to effectively control them, what the "present" situation of the Decepticon-Autobot war was, etc. Optimus was going to be the one he learned these things from, even if he didn't use the knowledge in a way Optimus agreed with. Think to yourself, do you agree with everything your teachers in school did or said? Did you follow everything instruction they gave and did everything the same way they did? Does that make them any less your teachers if you didn't?

    Sentinel betrayed Optimus for what he thought was the good of his race, even if he was an elistist, backstabbing douchetruck who failed to embody much of what the core values of his people were. It doesn't mean he wasn't willing to learn from Optimus, and it doesn't mean Optimus wasn't willing to teach him up until he went "rogue".

    God I wish the entire cast had had as well-developed characterization as Sentinel.
     
  19. emoo

    emoo Well-Known Member

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    It could be he was lying. What I took it to mean, at the time he only knew of five pillars surviving and nothing on the rest, and had no idea of megatrons fate so their original plan was useless. I think he and megs met up or communicated offscreen without optimus knowing. Must have been a point he went off by himself after the talk about the matrix, after all when sam found him he did say optimus was ten minutes out from them.
     
  20. Soca Taliban

    Soca Taliban Well-Known Member

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    Why would Sentinel care about how human thought or their psychology? He intended to make them slaves. Most slaves master care little about their potential slaves thoughts, rather they only care about their ability to fight back.......plus its interesting that SP knew about human laws of physics, why not learn about humans from wherever/whatever he learned about our laws of science as well.
     

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