I thought Starscream became an Autobot in his ghost story where he teams with the Autos to lure Galvatron into an ambush. Magnus or another 'bot signals him and Octane to leave.

Didn't Octane turn Autobot when he befriended Sandstorm?

 

Actually, it was Rodimus Prime that gave him the signal. Sorry to go all Sto_vo_kor on you.

And I always thought it was the Heart Of Cybertron that powered Megatron's ship to begin with.

 

Ignoring the notorious animation inaccuracies of the G1 cartoon for the moment, there're two small problems with your assumption.

1. The archaeologists don't excavate the entire ship, only the section with the thrusters, which comprised only a small section of the Nemesis' entire length and width. The large excavated section framed in red in Picture 3 corresponds to the tiny red framed section in Picture 2.



2. We have no idea if the Nemesis crash landed intact. Look at the width and height of the ship compared to the diameter of the hill the rocket thrusters are embedded in. There's no way those large horizontal and vertical fins are embedded/buried in that hillside. It's more likely than not that the Decepticon ship was torn apart upon impact and that the archaelogists just happened to find the remains of the engineering/drive section with the Heart of Cybertron in it.

So, really, we have no real idea how big the Decepticon ship was.

 

It showed how big it was in BW. I'd say much it was destroyed when it crashed into the ground.

 

Well I would find it pretty interesting if this topic came up in an actual political debate.

2012: Presidential Debate:

Moderator: Mr. Obama, could you clarify for the record if Rumble is blue or red.

Obama: Uhhh....

Palin: Purple!!!!

Moderator: Wait your turn!!

 

its hard to take this as fact when the spelling is thoroughly inconsistant.

Anyway, it's implied that the pod was from the nemesis, with nothing to back it up. furthermore, none of the decepticons seem to have a clue who the insecticons are and vice versa.

 

I was actually arguing with your point that 'but what are the chances that more then 1 Decepticon ship had trouble over Earth 4 million years ago??' because another 'con ship actually DID, and putting forth that they could have come from that ship just as a possibility. You were right on the pod coming from their ship, but I was right on there being more than one 'con ship that crashed.  

--Moony

 

Also, Megatron could have just been WRONG... or uncertain. It's a Decepticon escape pod, launched around the same time our own starship crashed. Give or take 500 years.  

My advice is just not to bother debating Sto over these things. What is "implied" and what is "stated" can become a highly contentious issue, with no actual resolution possible. He knows his stuff, but arguing about the interpretation of that stuff is like beating your head against a brick wall (and leads to similar headaches).

With all due respect of course, Sto.  

This has always been my preferred interpretation.

zmog

 

My spelling has nothing to do with it, if you have watched the episode its really very clear.

Megatrons own words back it up, and the idea is that the pods computers, or what ever repaired them and re-formated them, is responsible for their not being recognizable.

What other Decepticon ship crashed or had trouble over Earth 4 minnion years ago???

Well of course he could be wrong.

My point is theres no reason to suspect he is, other then just plain old "its possible"

 

This. I noticed them too, but that wasn't your point which still came through clearly.

Also, there weren't two Decepticon Starships 4,000,000 yrs ago, there was one, presumably the one with the heart. The one serving as the underwater base was built shortly before in that same episode. I wonder if this creates a continuity error with BW or if we're supposed to assume that Tarantulus went around gathering the various parts of the Nemesis or if it was implied he had found the ship they'd been using as the underwater base. Because if that's the case the ship wasn't even built yet.

Or it's entirely possible that he found the Nemesis intact and that when it crashed, it landed in the hillside.

 

Okay, I don't think that's quite fair either... througout G1, robot modes always remained the same even after being reformatted with Earth modes. It's never caused an issue with recognition. So I don't quite buy that.

You would think the Cons, after waking up in 1984, would have noticed that 3 of their number were missing, and upon finding the escape capsule, would have immediately recognized who those crew members were, even if the Insecticons themselves, in their deranged states, no longer did.

The fact is that it's pretty ambiguous, and doesn't quite make all that much sense EITHER way... though it's about par for the course for the G1 cartoon. Their continuity and observance of the fine logical details was... weak. I think the whole thing is pretty open to interpretation...

I would point out that some of your arguments in the past stand on the same shaky "it's possible" ground. I'm always open to the fact that the writers just plain screwed up... leaving it open to our own speculation on the matter.

zmog

 

I dont remember completly but I believe Tarantulus underwater base is not related to the con ship.

Althou it wasnt made clear, it seems that the Insecticons have been around for a long time, who knows how long and how much damage they had.

Even if they noticed 3 of their number were missing, I doubt they would have cared.None of the con's seemed to have any kind of real friendships with each other.

Seems more likely to me that they wouldnt have even mentioned it.Further more, since they werent part of the boarding party, it would have been logical to assume they were still on the con ship.

I'm sure on each case I either had some example or acknowledge it was just a possibility.Unless your talking about the tournament debates.And hey, I've learned from some mistakes.,

 

I think this is the best summation.  

--Moony

 

Tarantulus found the Nemesis in the ocean, where it crashed after fighting the Ark in MTMTE part 1. In the finale of BW, he Megatron flew it back up into the air to attack the Ark. It was damaged & seen flying off, to crash onto land. It was buried & later found by Megatron in G1.

The ship the Decepticons use for a base in G1 is NOT the Nemesis. They built it brand new in MTMTE part 3. Because of Mirage, it crashed in to the ocean where they use it as a base. It might look the same but a different ship. Maybe Decepticons just like the design.

 

Agreed.

But if there was an other ship as you suggested I would appreciate the info about it.

 

Actually humans found the ship that time.

But thanks for the other info.

 

Maybe a bit later. Got some stuff to do before breaking out the DVDs.

--Moony

 

Anytime.

 

Paradox... head... asplodes...