Was Armada/Energon Unicron the same Unicron from the original movie?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by AutobotMarine, Mar 1, 2008.

  1. AutobotMarine

    AutobotMarine Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Posts:
    1,499
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:
    Just a little question I wanna ask...

    I heard, I cannot say it's abseloutely correct. After Unicron died in the first movie Unicron spark/soul managed to survive and travel into an alternate timeline and universe that is different from the G1 Universe. Could this explain why Unicron in Armada was essentially the same as TFTM 87' Unicron? Or are they different?

    We know that Unicron is a power warlord, and a god cannot be destroyed. I'm assuming he can travel through any distance past or future, and can travel through any alternate continuity. Which leads to the Blackhole in Cybertron, considering Unicron's spark consists of dark matter; which is a common cosmic matter in the universe. Which is why all future timelines did not exist, since the Blackhole was an obstacle of anything occuring within any future timeframes to ever happen. You can also say the same thing about other dimensions.
     
  2. surak777

    surak777 Autobot Musician TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Posts:
    338
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Likes:
    +0
    yet anything you can imagine... could... exist. Also for each decision you make you could creat an alternative universe causing a split or new universe to be create... and decide is descended from 2 words in latin meaning to kill. so you could be right and wrong all at the same time
    (welcome to quantum physics)
     
  3. Abrogate

    Abrogate Nondescript Former Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Posts:
    7,086
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    226
    Likes:
    +6
  4. Grimwing

    Grimwing Scientist Supreme

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2007
    Posts:
    4,962
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Likes:
    +3
    According to marvel comics unicron has the power to move into alternate universes. This protects him when he's about to be destroyed.

    Or locate new copies of galvatron to help him destroy this universes matrix.
    whatever he wants to do. Because that's unicron.

    Armada unicron is the same unicron as g1, and traveled between the g1 universe and armada.
     
  5. KA

    KA PENIS GOES WHERE?!!

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Posts:
    23,225
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +17
    so....if if theres only one unicron over multiverses, can primus be applied the same way? im not so sure abt that because each conti has its own cybertron. why dont the multi primus just gang up and beat up on unicron?
     
  6. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Posts:
    35,576
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    317
    Likes:
    +34
    Facebook:
    Instagram:
    The way I see it, they are absolute existences. Primus / Cybertron is a central point, existing simultaneously throughout many realities. He exists in all realities at the same time, but also exists in none. The various Cybertrons are extensions of him, not him himself.
    I see him as extradimensional, capable of arriving on a Cybertron when he is needed to intervene, otherwise using his network of sub-computers like Vector Sigma to direct things when needed.

    Unicron on the other hand just exists in one universe in his entirety. He simply jumps, universe to universe, as needed. That's how he is frequently able to act freely and destroy Cybertrons, because I see Primus as being much weakened from maintaining all his simultaneous existences.

    (I hope that makes sense!)
     
  7. unicronhq

    unicronhq Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Posts:
    375
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +1


    just read the back of the unicron battles wording: transported across time and space......so if he can do this to normal F'ed transformers that he picks to "serve" him it would suffice that he skips from one universe plane to another when it suits him.
     
  8. Deadend

    Deadend Overloaded Spark

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Posts:
    3,336
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +51
    Depends which bible you adhere to.

    Comics he is a god of chaos, as he is in armada-cybertron ( I reference cybertron for his new tank ship mode). As long as Yin, or hate exists, he will exist. As he's part of the natural order of opposites. Yin to primus' yang. Destruction to creation, death to life, or in simplest terms, black to white. He is the complete inversion to what primus is barring the cosmic aspects.

    G1 toon, and Japanese story, he's a spark who won't die, but his initial body was organic made. Primacron built him with his assistant the oracle who later becomes vector sigma and the matrix.

    Welcome to the continuity nightmare, pick your poison.

    Now as a god, he can be omniversal, omniscient, and omnipresent, BUT that doesn't mean each body was created in the same manner. Just because he's omniversal doesn't mean his origin is the same in each timeline, just that each timeline has a body for his spark to inhabit. Ditto to primus.
    Omnipresent = he exists in all timeframes of said timeline (or at least his spark does)
    Omniversal = he exists in all timelines
    Omniscient = he sees all

    These issues could really only be solved by an omnipresent spark, that even in being destroyed in the original movie carried on just fine without his body, but needing a new form to inhabit in that universe to do anything other than minor things like rebuilding starscream.

    So basicly he has a form for every universe, whether it's a ship, planetformer, or cube, he still has a place for his power/spark to spill over into for said universe when he pays his visit. Until then, various things must make his notice for his form in said universe to 'awaken'. G1 is moot as it basicly is what the rest splintered off of so to speak. This also explains his 'hibernations' in various universes. Including his stasis in armada as a smaller moon.

    So essentially, even in G1 toonverse, even though Primacron built him. Unicrons Omniversal spark gave it power. Now unless they create some bit of fiction that explains both primus and unicron were assistants to primacron, who's sparks gained in power over the eons to become cosmic beings. That's about the only way to sum it up, yin and yang, just various origins for said universes to become receivers of said power.

    Essentially he's a universal truth, like primus. Creation vs Destruction, hate vs. love, if you destroy one, you destroy the other, or cause a complete and utter universe nullifying mess... Or blackhole. You can't have one, without the other. Even in movie-verse, I expect some form of opposite to the allspark, the creator of life on that cybertron. Movie-verse for now, kinda sidesteps the issue by having the allspark be a TMA like construct. (2001: a space odyssey movie/book, and the subsequent books. Though even Unicron can be written in much the same still.)
     
  9. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    Posts:
    6,774
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Likes:
    +3
    Wasn't Unicron also blamed for the destruction of the Gobot universe? Maybe Robo Force too.:wink: 
     
  10. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Posts:
    7,925
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +0
    Um... *raises hands* sparks don't exist in the G1 cartoon.
     
  11. Grimwing

    Grimwing Scientist Supreme

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2007
    Posts:
    4,962
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Likes:
    +3
    laser cores are much cooler versions of sparks.
    ( beast wars stuff bleeding into the main robot-y continuity, kind of stupid.)
     
  12. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Posts:
    14,694
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +41
    In the Marvel UK comics Unicron got absorbed into the Matrix. Surely that would keep him nicely trapped?
     
  13. Dropshot

    Dropshot Transform your destiny

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Posts:
    2,750
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +4
    Sparks are far better than laser cores, they are more mystical, not a simple mechanical device that brings life to the transformer.
     
  14. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Posts:
    7,925
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +0
    That's why they're worse. Sparks take something fundamentally unknowable (the nature of the soul) and turn it into a tangible object. Way to miss the point, writers.
     
  15. Deadend

    Deadend Overloaded Spark

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Posts:
    3,336
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +51
    Actually, they could just be the further evolution of laser cores. While it does contain the fundamental sentience, it's really not that far a leap as what stargate atlantis has just shown capable with subspace and replicator 'sparks'.

    Not that far of a leap when the beast bodies are already 1/4 of the size of original bots. You have to keep in mind the innards were probably condensed and evolved too. The word 'spark' can still be used for G1 as it refers to their spark of life as well as whatever may contain it. Both are still hinting at an energy form that's condensed light and other theoretical particles.

    Sparks may carry a hint of mysticism to them, but it's still just a science that's leaps and bounds far ahead of what we can wrap our heads around. Same to how laser cores give 'life'. The laser core itself may give life, but what does it exactly contain that does it? Could it just be the initial archaic way their 'sparks' were fashioned and contained to interact with the body? If so, the BW spark is just the natural evolution. There are many references to technology that hasn't been used in ages or has become a lost art. (The famous diecast construction quote for example.)

    Keep in mind from G1-BW there were many many many years passed by, including a complete overhaul of the populace into less energy consuming beings. Which would include the obsolete ways they contain their life essence being changed into something more streamlined. Like say an energy like bubble around the main essence that still allows interactivity with the body on a more sleek less power consuming manner. Think 70s caddy vs electric car. Carborater and alternator vs whatever new fangled way they power hybrids, electric cars, and even Hydrogen cars.

    It's just a physical manifestation of their sentience, G1 has already shown that possible with starscream's ghost. So G1 had already set precedent on the idea, just BW-BM expanded and evolved it to show that the spark must be extinguished as opposed to allowing it to return to the matrix, for pure death to occur (no ressurection), which also helps explain the unfathomable amount of 'last minute saves' in all continuities. With the archaic manner of protection G1 may have had in that regard, it may not have taken much to damage that obsolete type of container that maintained the bodily connections, and stability of the 'organs'. Whereas the streamlined BW bubble container connections allow things like waspernators comedic exits and habits. Among other moments of humpty dumpty type outcome battles. They delve into this much deeper in the Screamer appearance in BW, and in the Rampage/Depthcharge story arcs, from rampage's 'birth' to TM2 dinobots sacrifice. We are also shown that it's possible for a spark to be overridden by a personality, and vice versa. Prime's spark overwrote some of primals briefly (archaic more powerful type of core being contained in a sleeker spark container that's built to hold a less powerful form of the same particles.) and Dinobot's honor overriding rampage's blood thirst once that half was put to rest permanently.

    So while the 'spark' may contain the essence, it seems to be an essence that can be easily 'altered' by the cerebral matrix of the bot it's in, connected to, or even charged by. Unless an outside force remains in control, or the original imprint can overwrite itself back somehow. Shown heavily in BM especially with vehicons, and a few random episodes of G1 where good guys go bad, or gears circuit chip for grumpiness.

    In fact, transformers have constantly evolved in each timeline, especially if you look at G1 and the usage of time travel to those periods or even Hot Rod's quest inside the matrix. A3's growth, and many other bots and stylistic changes over their own time frame. BW just follows that same basic idea, but fast forwards a few thousand years.

    I tend to lean on an Einstein quote when it comes to things like this.
    "Science without religion is lame, and religion without science is blind."
    Mystical doesn't always mean magical, just that we have no current explanation as of yet. A magician appears to be magic until you see the how.
    Sparks and laser cores are much the same, and could be, more than meets the eye. lol

    Probably, but it also opens the door for his remaining generals to rise up and try and free him. Or could potentially be part of IDW's plan with nemesis and the dead universe.

    The problem with even in being contained, is if he's a 'god' he can still be present in each universe at anytime, just his final fate is that point in time of his incarceration into the matrix. Or he could have been set free during the Vok creation out of the swarm. Or during the Hate Plague destruction. Both incidents did leave the matrix quite powerless temporarily.

    There's some short comic of him taking his new ship tank form from a destroying a planet, which I'm guessing leads to him reforming his body for universe Unicron. Maybe that tells how he got free. Forget what it was, think it was a collector's thing.
     
  16. luke4

    luke4 crocon

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Posts:
    636
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Likes:
    +0
    i look at it as armada unicron is a new version of g1 unicron. so its supost to b the same guy. like a universe toy.
     
  17. Cmdr Prime

    Cmdr Prime co-Commander of Autobots TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Posts:
    843
    Trophy Points:
    131
    Likes:
    +0
    Was Armada/Energon Unicron the same

    Deadend, your words make sense where you get your information from its totally blowing my mind but there is one thing I would like to draw your attention to in energon there was this four faced being[Alpha Q] who was in control his head after Unicron had devored Alpha Q's planets and he sent out terrocons to collect the energon so that Unicron could be revived and Megatron was in control of his body
     
  18. Dom

    Dom TFA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Posts:
    1,503
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +2
    Rocklords killed the Gobot dude. Think Robo Force just gave up when they figured their only attack was clapping.
     
  19. Boulder

    Boulder Rock Lord

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Posts:
    2,920
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +9
    I'm of the belief that there are two constants to every Transformers universe. Cybertron/Primus/Vector Sigma and Unicron. (While Earth has been in each continuity, it's presence isn't required for the Transformers to exist much in the way that, thankfully, Transformers aren't required for humanity to exist.) While Primus exists to create life (Autobots/Decepticons) and maintain order, Unicron exists solely to destroy and to create chaos. So for every universe there must be one Earth, one Cyberton, and one Unicron. In this sense, Unicron is the yin that balances the yang of Primus's existance.

    So to answer the original question, yes it's the same Unicron in the same way that it's the same Cyberton and the same Earth. And yet different.
     

Share This Page