Customs: Vinyl Dyes My Opinion Looking for yours!

Discussion in 'Creative General Discussion' started by gaetz, Jun 14, 2010.

  1. gaetz

    gaetz Gaetz

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    Vinyl Dyes My Opinion Looking for yours! + Decanting!

    I have had mixed results using the Duplicolor Brand.

    Postive results have been with my G1 seekers. It seem to just soak it up no problem. With about 3-4 coats of white its perfectly even. I'm then able to procced with what ever colour i've picked. With no loss of detail. The pitch black plastic like face, swivil part for wings don't like the dye as it doesn't even soak it in, it just sits on the surface like normal paint.

    After reassembling the toy I found that for the most part everything went back as it should. However, the little pags the connected at the end of legs (where the thrusters snap on) was a little harder to do as they were already a tight fit. I'm assuming that the dye may have swollen the plastic a bit in the drying process. But were only talking less then a milmeter around the whole diameter of the pag ( less then 1/32 of an inch). So I count it as prity much nothing, but enougth that I had to mention it. ***New Result from second seeker I've done*** Tape off any pegs or holes that are required to reassemble the toy. I experinced more swelling in this seeker then before. You can read in more detail in one of my post below.

    Negative results and tips i've learned from trial and error

    Some one on some other thread has probly already stated this, but don't apply it like normal spray paint. You will end up just making it develop a film. What ever you do, do not scratch the part if there is any bubbling or film development. Especially if its within an hour of you spraying the peice. You will end up taking a bit of the plastic off with it in the process. Where if you just do a little more then dusting it (light spray per coat), you will beable to maintain any type of detail on the figure (no bubbling no film) . Additionally, due to the fumes, this should be done in a well vented area or just out side for saftey reasons.

    A spray can of this at your local Canadian Tire ( I'm from Canada if you havn't realized lol) will cost you about 8.99 before tax. Colors from duplicolor are limited to the OEM, unless your store is lucky enought to carry their Tuner Colors. Now, the cans come in 12 oz size only.

    I've looked around the internet and found a company named brillo which produces 4 oz cans with a wider color range (50+), however there mainly earth tones as they are a shoe company. I have yet to try them out as they do not ship to Canada.

    Actuall example I have for a negative experince would be my G1 Soundwave. I'm assuming its of a more denser plastic then the Seekers as it toke me over 11 coats (more then one 12oz can). Its white base coat still didn't look as goods as the scrap skywarp I did up.

    Once I'm finished my project I will post a few dozen photos to show the progression start to finish.

    My opinion on using this type of dye

    Postives: Personally I enjoy this method to changing the colors of the toy vs painting. As it doesn't have any significant changing in the demensions of the toy. No chipping if applied correctly. You only need to clean the toy before applying the dye. No need for base or top coats to protect it from chipping etc. Its just all around easier to use. For the more experinced person out there I would assume this would be great for a base background color. As they maybe able to apply more standard painting methods on top. As to make a very nice Custom.

    Negatives: Limited non earth tone colors. Making it harder to have the more intresting color schemes, that a more professional Kitbasher might want or need. Due to it being only avaliable in standar spray can also limits the more experinced people from using more convential paint application design work.

    However I have yet to try taping off a section and try to die the non taped area. I'm not sure if they dye would leach into the taped off part or not. Due to the nature of the dye having acetone, i'm assuming that it would spread out.

    If anyone has any advice, tips or questions, I hope the community here can help. As I'm still learning myself.
     
  2. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    This sounds VERY interesting, could you back up a little and tells us a bit more about what this product is, what it's intended use is for (cars, shoes?), and how you apply each stage.

    You refer to it as a "dye" but talk about spray-application.

    It sounds like you need to spray on a white-base, and then you can apply other pigments, how does this work, excatly?

    Some pictures of the product might help too.

    It REALLY sounds like you're on to something, but I'm still a little lost!
     
  3. gaetz

    gaetz Gaetz

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    Please Use this a stepping stone towards your project. Its by no means a comperhensive guide to getting perfect dyed plastics.
    I'm still playing around and learning how to properly use this type of product myself.

    To answer the first question, the product is generally used by the shoe industry aswell as car Infusiest. This is the primary reason to the lack of viberant colors. The dye it self is used primarly on Vinyl, Leathers and plastics in the shoe industry. However, if you check out the duplicolor website, you will notice that they use it on dashboards and seats. Depending on what the seats are made of. I have yet to see them using it on say a polyester or cotton fibers. As it may not beable to dye more organic made products.

    List of stages I used. Plus a few hints as to what I did wrong the first few times.

    -1: Cleaned all stickers off with Goo Gone (its lemony Fresh)

    -2: Used a varsal to remove any Goo Gone, oils, dirt etc. (Not sure if there is a better less toixc alternative to varsal, if anyone knows of one please suggest)

    -3: Then washed the varsal off with luke warm water. I wore a non poweder gloves to prevent contaminating the freshly cleaned parts with any oils from my own skin or dirt etc.

    -4:Tape off any connection points. Ex: G1 Seekers, any stub that has to go into any holes and the holes if possible. Like those of the Tail fin and rear horizontal wing. I just tried to assemble my second seeker I semi finished this evening, today (June 14th) after I wrote this review. The plastic has swollen a lot more then expected or experinced with the first seeker. I was able to push in the tail fin into the leg. However, it was a pain in you know what to get back out. With that said, Taping off the invisible parts is now recommended so as to allow a smoother reassembling. I guess i'm still in the trial and error stage

    -5: Depending on the size/shape etc of the item. I either mounted it with a dab of silcone cocking, or suspended it using a fine metal string. Basically your trying to get it not to have contact to anything. As there is a potential of the Acetone softening the plastic to the point where it can get stick. Its annoying to pull the peices off and notice there was some film build up on the edge of the peice.

    -6-A: Very Important, Lets say the peice you want to dye is a Black. But you want to dye it a Medium Shade Blue. You must dye it a lighter color, like white. Once the peice is your preimer color, white or other, you can then apply your desired color. In this case the Medium Blue. If you don't prime it, all your going to get is a Black peice with a blue tinge at best. Worest case it just stays Black. So priming is essential to achive a lighter color.

    In another case, say the peice is a light grey and you want to dye it a medium red. I still recommend priming it white as you will get a more accurate Red advertised on the can vs the red on grey. This isn't always the case. I just figure its better to be safe then sorry. esspeically at how much it is per can. You should always test it out on a part thats hard to see or is a junker. As i've learned, not all g1 or any generation of transformer toys are made with the same type of plastics.

    -6-b: They say to wait atleast 10 mins between coats, I personally generally try to go for atleast an hour. Additionally, add more time if you live in a humit area. As humidity does play a factor. Do not be afraid if you find that the peice your dying looks spoty, its the humity. You will just have to apply more then 3 coats to get an even dye. If you find your at 4 coats and you still have more then a bit of spoty still going one. Try and get a humity gauge, it maybe that the humdity is well above 60 percent. Or sadly the plastic maybe so dense that the acetone isn't able to soften it as desired.

    Note: It takes aprox. 24 hours to full cure aka for the acetone to fully evaporate and the plastic to fully solidify.

    To answer any remaining question about dye and spray application, here is the following:
    The dye consist of well a pigment and acetone. The acetone is a very hazardest cemical, it can do a lot of harm to you. Always do this in a well vented area or have a profession breathing mask. Acetone is what softens the plastics, vinyl etc. Once the acetone does its job of softening the plastic, the pigments are able to penatrate. So in this case it is dying the plastic. To get rid of the dyed plastic, you will either have to scrape at the plastic it self, destroying it. Or re-dye it. Unlike paint, which generally can be taken off with out any danmage to the toy. That depending on what type of paint and paint removers.

    Please take me seriously about only doing this in a well ventilated area. I can not be held responsible for people that make them selves ill, by breathing in the fumes, your killing brain and lungs cells. I maybe going over the top, but i've said it before its better to be safe then sorry.

    Additionally, I do not take credit of any kind for descovering this idea, for the most part I have just gathered the information from numours other transformer, lego, fashion, crafts and how-to websites. Then tested out it on my own and found what works for me. Other sites have said that the whole dying things a just a big farse. However I do believe that its because they used it on either very dense plastics, or differnt companies have produced inferior dye products. So if you can't find what I'm currently using, its probly going to be trial and error for you aswell.


    So the duplicolor vinyl dye can be seen at High-Perf Vinyl & Fabric Coating

    Here is some pictures of a broken Starscream Tail fin, you can see on one of them the film build up I was talking about, on the other Is a very nice red.
     
  4. gaetz

    gaetz Gaetz

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    Didn't upload the pictures. My mistake!

    Hope you Enjoy, as this was my first trial and error.
     

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  5. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    VERY VERY interesting, thanks for all the info! I'm going to try this technique out once I get my new workshop set up!
     
  6. Superquad7

    Superquad7 We're only human. Super Mod

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  7. gaetz

    gaetz Gaetz

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    Yeah, I remember reading about this when I researched the above type of dye. Note, I have never done this, so my comments are based on educated guess and youtube tutorial videos on this method. I also have to say I take a very negative view on this method, as it seems i'm pointing out alot of the down sides. So don't let that discourage you from trying this out. It is a valid method to dying plastic. I'll try to point out as many Postives as possible.

    On a postive side, the ablity to mixing a unlimited palet of differnt colors seems to be a bonus.

    However, as its all about mixing and timing, I wasn't comfortable with the idea. The chances of you being able to dye parts in two differnt batches and aquiring the same shades would be very hard if not just annoying.

    Negative points that made me stay away from using this method of dying:

    Theres the hazzard of having to be indoors with the boilling bot (depending on method choice) and working with the acetone in a more pure form. On a health side of things I just think thats asking for trouble.

    But hey people work with asbestos, right! (jj, asbestos is a carcinogenic, acetone can only lead to felling sick and perhaps skin eritation). Once again read up on this stuff before you make an educated evaluation of your options and what your willing to do as an idividual. What one person is willing to experiment with might not be what your willing to do your self.

    Back to talking about the dye

    Your also limited by the fact that if you want to beable to get any color, you will want your base piece to already be whtie. If not, the darker your item is, the more limited the color palet becomes avaliable to you. You Can't Dye soming black into a light Blue, using rit dye.

    Now, if your the type of person that has no problem handling acetone. Or you have the equipment / knowledge to make it just that more safer, I pat you on the back. I just recomend reading the pervious post and the link attached and do some independent research as well. Then by all means this maybe an alternative route to take.

    In regards to Spray Can Dye, for the near future we will be limited in what colors will be avalible. It's just nice that you can create a base white no mater what color the plastic it is.

    *****Semi Change in subject****

    Personally, If they could supply that Spray Can Dye in paint can format, I'd be in heaven. You could dip the peices into the dye. Wash off the excess. Preventing any type of bubbling or expansion in the plastic from to many coats, which is casued by the acetone. The real Bonus is that you can get full coverage in one dip. Perhaps even get it fully dyed in 1 to 2 dips. vs 3 or more coats by standard spray can methods.

    If anyone knows of a vinyl dye avaliable in paint can format please let everyone know here.

    I truly do not believe that the spray can method is ready to be placed in any tutorial, until more of the kinks have been smoothed out.

    Yeah for experimenting, boo for all the money and toys i've destroyed. lol.
     
  8. gaetz

    gaetz Gaetz

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    I'm about to answer my own question. I spent some time surfing the internet and found a solution to my dream application of the dye. Its called decanting. More information on that subject can be read from these two tutorials:

    The Ghost of Zeon : How-To : Extracting Paint from a Spray Can
    Spray Can Decanting Tutorial

    I have yet to try it out. Once I do, I will post a few pictures to show off the results good or bad. Hope to have them up in the next few hours.
     
  9. gaetz

    gaetz Gaetz

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    Hello again

    Ok, what i've learned in the last hour and a half.

    1: Follow there guides to the letter, wear some sort of latex gloves, decanting is a little messy. There can be alot of spray back from the can, even with the straw.

    2: Dipping the item you wish to dye into the dye = Simple, easy

    3: DO NOT try to wash off excess dye from the item with Water. Photo below, item isn't wet, its just that sticky and goowee. What ever the substance is, it developed as soon as the dyed item touched the water.

    4: I need to develope or learn of a way to dry the dyed item as to no make streaks. As blowing on the item may get the excess liquid off, but leaves streaks. I was thinking about paper towel, but am worried it may leave the equvilant of a finger print in the remaining dye/plastic.

    5: One coat of dye seems to do the trick = WOOO HOOO!

    Now I just have to see if there is any warping / swelling of the plastic with just one coat. Take not: this peice was already danmaged as you can see the dent in the 3rd picture. On the left side of the peice.

    Ok here are the pictures. If anyone needs me to do up some more let me know. You can see the streak on the item I toke 3 pictures of. Sorry for any blurred pictures.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. destrongerlupus

    destrongerlupus #MoreSawBoss

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    This gets more interesting all the time!

    And, for what it's worth, I feel that this technique (including all variations Gaetz has shared with us so far) is VERY much different enough from the "Acetone and Fabric Dye" approach as to warrant a separate resource entry.

    Although, it'd probably be best if it was composed as an actual tutorial-etc.

    Gaetz, if it's all right by you, when I get a chance to experiment with this product and approach, I'll formally document the process, and perhaps share it with the TFW2005 staff. (Assuming someone else doesn't beat me to the punch). I'll definitely credit you for introducing our community to the idea!
     
  11. gaetz

    gaetz Gaetz

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    Hey Destrongerlupus

    I have no problem with it, power to yeah.

    I have however, made a rough draft of a tutorial as i've been going along with my experimenting. I was planning to only release it once I had completed a full seeker to my satisfaction. That way I'd have a few photo's to go along with the Tutorial.

    If your up to it, perhaps you can critique my tutorial. Once you have done some of your own experimenting.

    Let me know what you think.

    Also if any of the MODs would like to take a look at the Draft of the Tutorial. Feel free to contact me. I hope that once its finished it, it will be worthy of being in the Tutorials and How To's Table of Contents.

    I'm Hoping to have a full Red seeker completed by the end of the weekend. Danm you job and your Full Time Hours and having a Life, your getting in the way of my hobby LOL.
     
  12. Superquad7

    Superquad7 We're only human. Super Mod

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    As you and I have already talked, I am really enjoying your experiment here and think it's valuable information. The more photos you can add to things (while you're doing them, the before/after results, etc.) is the more effective your tutorial will be.

    Just let me know when you're ready for things to be resourced simply by posting in the thread here and be sure to attach any additions you have. :thumb 
     
  13. gaetz

    gaetz Gaetz

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    Sounds like a plan. Time to get some batteries for the Camera.
     
  14. gaetz

    gaetz Gaetz

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    Hello

    I'm back, long story short, Had a few Kidney Stones... Lots 30 pounds "not fun" and lost a month of work.. Got better know looking to buy a house. Life has been very busy.

    So bascially whats happened with me playing around with the dye. What i've learned thats not posted above. The more sprays, the more acetone, which cause swelling. So even if you can get the peices to fit, theres other problems i've come accross. I have not been able to reproduce the shine/gloss finish on anything i've dipped or sprayed.

    In regards to the spray and lossing the gloss finish, I can only guess that part of the dye or acetone is drying/evaporating unevenly. I live in a very humit climate if that helps anyone with my curosity.

    Additonly, I can only concluded my first seeker I did was a fluke. If anything the dipping has caused way to much bubbling (which i've been unabble to stir out the bubbles); or excess dye which I can not remove without denting the Now soft plastic.

    Just hoping that some one else may have figured out one of two possiblities. One how to dye with out the problems listed above. Or 2; figured out a way to buff out the matte look into a Gloss Finish.

    So as of right now, that nice guide I had nearly finished is scrapped till this problem is resolved.

    Thanks everyone for your time
     
  15. Insane Galvatron

    Insane Galvatron is not insane. Really!

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    I didn't realize this was only just being researched? I've had quite a bit of luck with Vinyl Dye. I used the white to make the wavy stripe on my MP Pepsi Prime, as well as to color large parts white before doing the RIT dye to get another color. Can't use acetone in the RIT dye if doing a part already done with Vinyl Dye. I only stopped using this stuff when it got hard to find. Parts stores around here only carry "vinyl and carpet paint", which I'm not entirely sure how it's different.
     

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